wood keeps splitting

[Haden]

Hi

I am trying to make some totemic figurative type scupltures (I suppose similar to Baselitz'z) hacked out of tree trunks. The first few turned out pretty good except that the wood starts to split very badly and ruins the piece. Is there a way to stop it splitting.? Someone told me to "oil it" - but am not sure how or what oil to use.

Also any idea on the best type of trees to use (I work at a shop where alot of tree contactors stop by so I will have no problem getting)

I have searched alot on the net but have not found any answers so I thought it best to ask!

Thanks for any help
Haden

[jwebb]

This is a constant problem with wood. Some kinds of wood are more prone to splitting and cracking or "checking" than others. In general, harder woods like cherry, oak, any kind of nut or fruit tree, are finer grained and crack less. Splitting them requires real effort. Soft woods like pine, fir, alder, split and crack very easily. Also, wet or green wood cracks or "checks" as it dries. So, try to get seasoned wood to start with. There are exceptions and some counter-intuitive things about wood, though. The real totems of the Pacific Northwest were carved out of whole cedar trees. Cedar is very soft, straight-grained, and splits very easily. But it lasts and lasts outdoors, and some of those totems are hundreds of years old. I think they used trees which had died and dried naturally and very slowly, while still standing. Then they cut and carved them. Also, wood which has become water-logged and sunk in cold water for long periods of time, takes on some characteristics that are highly valued by musical instrument makers (like Stradivari) and they are very resistant to cracking. Historically, Chinese and Japanese as well as German wood carvers went to great lengths to hollow out sculptures so there'd be only thin cross sections with no central mass to dry unevenly, which is what causes cracking. Most modern wood carvings are cracked and patched if you look closely. Hope this helps. Let's see some pics of these pieces.

[sculptor]

as a counterpoint:

carving green is a pure pleasure----if your edges are sharp, they glide through the wood like a hot knife through butter


and denser woods tend to be a tad more cantankerous and active---especially oak----though some of the white oaks are more stable

Haden, as a starting point may I recommend Constantines book "know your woods"

All green wood has a lot of water which needs to be removed slowly if you wish to avoid checking which starts splitting. I have used hot wax, wax thinned with mineral spirits and turpentine th seal the endgrain and force the water to exit slowly across the grain, and/or large plastic bags like the kind matresses come in can retard drying quite nicely----just bag the piece when you're not working it and then when you come back, you'll see the inside of the bag is dripping and fogged over----turn the bag inside-out while you're working the wood, then rebag.---this is the technique I used for Donna(see attached)-If you slow the drying this way, the carving will stay clean and unsplit-then, if it is a stable wood like poplar and/or catalpa, it will remain unsplit. I have a 25 year old catalpa carving with virtually no splits ...........Photo attached........she dried over about 7-9 months.

seek a wood that has a small percentage of shrinkage and yet holds good detail when carved-----also anything with a good cross-grain-------general rule of thumb----the more prominant the annual rings, the more likely the splits------

my favorite carving wood is catalpa--it carves easily, shrinks little, and has a peppery sweet smell when carved----then basswood for ease of working---then butternut(which is getting hard to find) for small carvings try black cherry and any of the plums. Another favorite is sassafras which carves easily, and weathers well. Mahogany also is in this catagory.

where are you? what's available?

hope this helps

rod
sculptor (http://sculpture.alturl.com)

ps---pardon the streaks, she was under a leaky roof for a few years

[shona]

Very nice work there sculptor !
about the splitting wood, you should select your tree trunks then seal the top and bottom ends with wax or grease then wrap each end win lots of trash bags so they'er air tight, after this you should just store them out of thr weather,sun.rain,snow then atleast after 4 months or so the logs have slowly lost moistuer via the bark instead of via the cut ends, you might have some cracking but not as bad as that you got now.
or you could just rough out you idea on the fresh trunk then let it sit in shade for a few weeks then go work on it agin to almost finished then let it sit for a few more weeks then collect the fine sand paper dust of the trunk mixed with good wood glue that dries translusent seal then cracks using your thumbs pushing the paste deep into the cracks till it won't go in no more, always keep a nice lump of paste raised along the the crack so when you are final sanding the dried lump will blend in the wood.
goodluck!

[tfohl]

If you split the log and use a quarter or even a half, the splitting will be greatly reduced. Elm wood is virtualy impossible to split but also resists checking (splitting) well,

Best,
Tim Fohl

[sculptor]

If you split the log and use a quarter or even a half, the splitting will be greatly reduced. Elm wood is virtualy impossible to split but also resists checking (splitting) well,

Best,
Tim Fohl

addendum to Tim's........
-"Elm wood is virtualy impossible to split but also resists checking (splitting) well,"
with a small clarification-----Elm is nearly impossible to split perpendicular to the growth rings, but splits easily along the growth rings----especially if the rings are large and pronounced(eg: from wet summers and cold winters)--------from this peculiarity elm makes a darned stable drum if you can coax the center part out-----
rod
sculptor (http://sculpture.alturl.com)
(and carver)

[Louie Arce]

I have turned bowls made of green wood with great success.However in the scale you need it is difficult to stop the splitting. Wood turners that make very very large pieces use a solution called PEG. PEG is a wood seasoning and dimension stabilizing agent. PEG stands for( polyethylene glycol) it is low in toxicity. It is a common ingredient in face creams and makeup. You will need to make some sort of vat to submerge the sculpture in the PEG. I am taking this info from a book that I have in front of me. If I keep going I will end up transposing the entire book...LOL. However just find a good book on stabilizing green wood or find a book on turning green wood/Google it on the net. The book I have is called...Working green wood with PEG. It is very old so it may be out of print. The auther is Patrick Spielman(ISBN #-0-8069-8924-6 ) paper back Copy right is 1980. The book shows many examples of items made with PEG..Like lamps,sculpture, slab tables etc....Check on Amazon books as well good luck....Louie....let me know what you come up with...PS try these suppliers..Lee Valley Tools,Woodcraft supply Corp.

[clifton]

Hi Haden,

the subject seems to have been covered well

I would just like to add that another way of doing larger pieces is to glue up planks of wood, to form a larger block or figure shape.

Not sure it would suit totem work, or match what you have in mind, but I have had success with this, even using pine and spruce. It is usually easier to come accross, or dry your own 2x4's and 2x6's, and gluing to shape offers a chance at some wider shapes. As long as the wood is seasoned before glueing, there should be no problem with cracking.

Clifton
________

[jay benson]

Back ground:I have just started a wood carving and would like a reply to questions about dry, controllong splitting, temp. control and use of pentacryl vs. linseed oil & thinner. I am working from a full (not split/sawn) sugar maple log. When the log was cut, I painted the ends (but did not remove bark). The log is 5' log x 16" dia. The log was stored in an unheated garage for 4.5 yeares. I have started remove material w/ a chain saw. There were radial checks that went into the ends about 3". I was working outside w/ the cahinsaw. After each cutting session I covered the entire piece w linseed oil/thinner 50:50. I live in Minnesota. Now we are having cold weather. NIghts -20 days +5. My understanding is that sugar maple has a relatively low moisture content.
Questions/concerns:
1) Will moving the piece from a +30 garage space to working outside where is is +10 and then moving back to the 30 garage cause warp/cracks?
2) Controlling/preventing cracks - so I'm seeing that people are covering carvings with plastic to slow down drying. Any opinion if the use of linseed oil/ thinner each time wood is removed and then covering with plastic is less effective then the use of penacryl?
3) Pentacryl seems expensive - I just paid $ 17 for 1 qt. Anybody know of a cheaper source? In some thread it said "penacryl goes a long way" this thread advised painting on with brush. Can it be extended (thinned with anything?) I also saw in a thread that it will not change the color of the wood and not affect finishing with a stain. Can someone confirm.
4) shape distortion. This log is from a branch, not a trunk. However the annual rings seem even, suggestion that the wood is not under compression? THe form I am making will be larger at the top and bottom wi a thin waist. Any ideas whether the thin part will distort, meaning become a curve rather than strainght?
5) Shrink and the addition of metal parts. I may choose to put bronze 'feet on this piece. I am concerned that if I carve the wood in a socket and then put the bronze over the socket that the wood will shrink and the bronze will no lionger hold in place.
6) Moisture content. I wonder how wet this wood really is at this point. Will moisture readers give an accurate reading on something that is 16' in diameter? Any suggestion on s specific moisture meter to buy?
7) I to complete this piece for a show in may of '07. So I have a little less then 3 months for completion. Will it be dry by then?

Lots of questions, I know. Any have wood (haha) be great. Thanks, Jay,

[PTsideshow]

You want to locate some of the books on chainsaw craving and any out there on Carving Totems and Masks. The couple on chainsaw carving I have are paperback booklet type ones The only one I can find at the moment is called Fun & Profitable Chainsaw carving. I don't have the publisher or who wrote it. It was in a library binding. I copied a number of sections from it, years ago. This is a wood carving group that has a lot of info and had a number of totem cravers in it. http://www.chipchats.org/ Here is a book source for most things in wood. http://www.foxchapelpublishing.com/ Another book on Totem and mask carving by sterling Publishing Allan & Gill Bridgewater. http://www.leevalley.com/home/main.asp is a good source for wood working stuff and always has some interesting thinks and books for sale.

[sculptor]

sugar maple---acer saccharum

light tan to reddish brown heartwood and near white sapwood?

it is a strong and stable wood when cured

I would recoment forgetting the linseed oil('cepting leave the bottom and other end coated---wax actually works better in blocking migration of moisture) and finding a large plastic bag (like from a mattress-and bagging the log when not carving---------when you start to carve again, the inside of the bag should be coated of fog-moisture-beads---let it dry as you work then recover---this way, you maintain a balance of moisture within the log and moisture at it's surface---this could be a long, slow process---
if you leave ff the carving, still remove and replace the bag weekly, or biweekly
-----
when the wood is inside, and the bag quits fogging up and leaving moisture n it's surface, then the log is dry wnough to resist checking or warpage

commonly, branch wood is considered brash wood and is pron to warping as you cut into the grain-----
again, this slow process reduces that risk

when cured, sugar maple is a hard, strong, stable wood used in fine musical instruments, bowling alleys, bowling pins, dance floors, and the pinplank in pianos

it should be a lot easier to carve green than when dry
moisture meters are the simplest way to test moisture contend as deep as the pins from the meter will penetrate, but without the bagging, you cannot be certain that the reading represents the center as well as the surface of the log------the rule of thumb is that hard woods like maple dry 1"/year while lighter(softer) woods may dry up to 1" in 6 months--------

spring is coming and the frost giants will sleep again
I worry about free moisture in the log at these low temperatures-when you go from above to below freezing--whereas, the bound moisture(within the cells) should be safe with sap

You might also IM thatch---he seems to know his wood too.
keep us appraised of your progress

[wolfcreek]

The majority of my art work is log carving. Most of what I carve is pine, sugar maple, ash and oak since that is what is available in my area. Most logs will hold the moisture in untill the outer layer of wood is taken away. It's usually not a good idea to leave the bark on during storage since this invites infestation of all sorts of critters.

All carvings like this have to check a bit before the wood will accept anything. What I do is wait for small cracks to appear on the top end of my carving, then coat with a good sanding sealer. I never seal the bottom end and keep it propped up off the ground to allow the remaining moisture to have a way to excape. Once the carving has dried fully only then do I seal the bottom end. The sanding sealer can be carved through but spite it's name is the worst to sand. If possible it's best to carve an area to finnish and then seal. If you do continue a carving session in an area that was sealed, reseal after but do not continue to apply additional coats to the rest. It will build up and wood can only soak up so much. Using the sanding sealer allows you to keep choices of final finnish. The only time I find it isn't the best choice is when I want to burn my finnish on. The sealer is toxic and highly flamable. I currently have a 5 foot carving I've been picking at as a special project that is carved from red pine. The carving was started in June. It is of 2 hawks, one with wings spread so cracking would be an issue if not treated right. I have only used the sanding sealer as described above and to date this piece is still in very good shape. The log has fully dried and is so light it's like picking up a 2 foot chunk not a five foot log.

The other issue to keep in mind carving outside is to stay out of the sun during the summer if cracking is trying to be prevented. A log in the sun that has had it's outer layers removed is like kiln drying wood. I sort of look funny running my log around the yard through the day chasing shade. Using a fridge cart to do this works much better on your back! A good one can haul quite a lot in log weight. Since those days I invested in a dinning tent to keep in the shade and cut down all the running around. But with some very green logs you just have to allow some sun dry time.

[RWJR]

woodweb.com is a great sorce of info

[evaldart]

I've been making heavy wood tabletops (3-4inches thick) out of reclaimed pine, fir and spruce, the stuff of demolished factories, for 15 years and probably 30 percent have had significant splitting and required repair work which doesn't necessarily help client relations and referrals. There just doesnt seem to be any rhyme or reason to the whole thing. I love the physicality of wood and use it extensively in sculpture as well, but why wont it just be nice like steel is?

[Landseer]

I've been making heavy wood tabletops (3-4inches thick) out of reclaimed pine, fir and spruce, the stuff of demolished factories, for 15 years and probably 30 percent have had significant splitting and required repair work which doesn't necessarilyAs a 9th year woodworker during the day, wood movement is the thing I HATE about wood, you can spend all sorts of time carefully planning and jointing a board nice flat and true, go to lunch, come back and the damn thing has started to twist, warp, bow or whatever.

You straightline a board on a sliding tablesaw and halfway through the cut the cut far end of the board starts to move INwards trapping the blade, and oh, the cut edge is no longer straight because the board has started to warp.

You straightline the board on a $20,000 Altendorf sliding table saw and take off an inch from the edge, you then set the board on the cut edge on the flat table and discover it has already bowed up due to releasing some internal stress by cutting that inch off.

You cut, straightline, plane and finish an oak board and then discover some little hairline crack several inches long from the cut end that opens as you stress the board, yet witht he naked eye the board looks just fine.

You get a ding, deep scratch, dent and no matter what you do to it, it always LOOKS repaired no matter how close in color the filler is or how well you try splicing in a patch- you can always spot it like a red bulls eye.

You get a load of expensive lumber in and all the boards are nice and wide and flat and look real nice on the stack at first, till you start diving in, then you find those nice wide boards all have a HUGE knot right in the center, or a large split, shakes, deep checks etc. When you find some decent boards in the stack they are either too narrow, too short, too warped.

Or, you start planning the thickness down, going along well till the last cut and then the planer starts taking chunks of wood out because the grain in that depth of the board now runs in a DIFFERENT direction so it's being torn out, now the board is at the thickness you need and you have those nice deep tearouts you can't fill without it being obvious, you can't sand them out either.
On open grain wood like oak, if you glue, or use filler, you always wind up with those in the adjacent open cells or the glue squeezes out thru the cells- that affects stains and appearance.

It's maddening, it's inconsistant and follows no logic at all, you can pull two boards from the SAME shipment and they look identical, one winds up fine the other starts warping and bowing.

I made 141 raised oak panels, all of them were wide enough to require edge gluing 4/4 lumber to get the width. After all the work you go back and find several have started to crack at random from the thin edge inward along the grain, while some started to warp. Of course warpage is not going to go away, and if you fill those cracks they just get wider eventually.

I'll be totally glad when I can NOT work with wood again, the lumber we get today is just crap- reclaimed garbage from salvaged forest fires, trees that are pushed too fast too far, stressed, then the lumber is dried too fast and rushed through the mills too fast and loaded on trucks far too soon.
The boards on the bottom and top of the stacks always have permanent stains from sticker boards or whatever, and damage from the straps.

So the consumer gets wet lumber that is a notch above green full of stress checks and tiny splits in the surface, sheets of plywood that are DAMP and starts to warp- and I'm talking about $85-$90 a sheet 3/4" apple veneer-core stuff here.

[sculptor]

...

It's maddening, it's inconsistant and follows no logic at all, you can pull two boards from the SAME shipment and they look identical, one winds up fine the other starts warping and bowing.

....

Randall-you one funny dude man

wood is the rotting remains of a once proud tree-----
treat it with a little respect

I always sticker the wood and let it season-if it's from a tree i harvested, or a lumber yard, or uncle Fred's recycled coffin-----then cull the piles when i wanna build something----sometimes, a cantankerous board wants to become a lot of little pieces before it is willing to cooperate-----
I've got a few crazy sticks that have been hanging 'round for 20 years waiting for me to use 'em or burn 'em-------schizophrenic bastards want to belly, bow, warp and twist all at the same time
gotta love 'em-dey gots real personalities
.
Eval---when i make tabletops---desktops---countertops---especially thick ones--i slip in a perpendicular sliding dovetailed stiffener--or 2 --or 3 --or....
a drop of glue near the front end and a heavy waxjob over the finish at the ends(under a heatlamp)---starting with clean stock, this seems to get even red oak to cooperate---one did split a bit--and i think it was cause that end was in the direct sun of a south facing window, while the other end lived in shade

long ago a customer complained about the variation in grain and tone in a piece that her husband really loved---and I said---wood is alive it has personality---maybe, you'd be happier with plastic

I like to buld an entire set of doors, group of cabinets, whatever with the wood from a single tree---failing that, 2 harvested from the same acreage
weather, rainfall, minerals, polution, ---(just like us) environment influences personality---tone, color, grain,

before I die, I'd like to build a boat out of riven white oak

nowadays, i seem to prefer cherry and butternut and walnut also sassafras and catalpa, but i still build with oak for them what wants it.

your tax dollar at work, the forestry labs under the dept of ag. have lots of literature on tests they've been doing for well over 50 years---everything from efficiency of finishes to block absorbsion of atmospheric moisture, to the
characteristics of different species----and they'll send it to you free for the asking

happy sawing,planing,riving,routing,sanding---find out about the local hand and eye surgeons before you need them

[Landseer]

Randall-you one funny dude man


I always sticker the wood and let it season-if it's from a tree i harvested, or a lumber yard, or uncle Fred's recycled coffin-----then cull the piles when i wanna build something--Well I unfortunately don't have that luxury, the foreman buys the lumber in insanely small quantities- 400 bd ft or so at a time while we wait on it's delivery to finish stuff already being built, that means when the truck comes with lumber, it gets unloaded and probably half of it run thru the machines right away- usually still cold if it's winter.

Not the way I'd do things, nor their horizontal storage when we go thru lumber so fast- you need a board it's dig down through 50 boards on horizontal rack shelves while standing on a ladder to find the right one. I'd have vertical stacks.
The way I'D do it is, buy a LARGE quantity and like you say, sticker it in the warehouse and let it dry for 6 months- the price of lumber only goes UP so it's not wasted money storing it and it costs nothing to do it.

Machining up and then laminating boards that basically come into a shop that's 65º and low humidity from a truck with ICE on them some times, is NOT the way to expect good results, nor is bringing in lumber from an environment of 95% humidity and 95º into a shop that's 63º low humidity very workable either, but that's how they do it and you try to suggest changes and it's "We've always done it this way"

OKAY, keep doing that way then, poor results are certainly NO reason to change protocol!

[evaldart]

I tried to use new lumber once so I wouldn't have to deal with somany nails, chips, gouges and termite tunnels. The planks spit sap on someones 5,000 dollar rug, for christ's sake! So I stick with the old beat-up stuff. At least all the bad stuff has already happened to me and I know how to deal.

[Landseer]

I tried to use new lumber once so I wouldn't have to deal with somany nails, chips, gouges and termite tunnels. The planks spit sap on someones 5,000 dollar rug, for christ's sake! So I stick with the old beat-up stuff. At least all the bad stuff has already happened to me and I know how to deal.Ouch!
Pine I presume?

Most of what I use at work is white oak and poplar, poplar is pretty much a utility grade wood like pine, but it has few knots, no sap and works well, but the color variations range from near white to dark with huge black areas, some green, grey streaks etc.

I've done some things with walnut, including a pair of gothic pet gates for my two front rooms- stained with Red Mahogany Minwax. I also have a 5 foot long 8/4 thick plank of Padauk sitting in the closet the last 8 years awaiting some use some day.

I have drop offs of 10/4 cherry I have used occasionally on some little projects too, I didn't think cherry trees even grew at large- the planks that came were 16 feet long and were up to about 16" wide or so.

[Aaron Schroeder]

Don't fight it. People pay extra for cracks, checks, dents and stains, it's proof it's real wood. I'm still trying to get my wood to crack authentically, like the real thing. Why won't it crack and warp like I want it to ? Wood !

[evaldart]

Exactly right Aaron. I tend to select the ugliest out of the demo pile first. The reason I've been able to sell these huge boards as table tops is because their industrial past damaged them so beautifully. And you can't fake that. But its still a fair amount of work to turn them into something home-friendly. But for sculpture...just pilot a 5/8 hole and fasten them with railroad spikes.

[tjh]

[QUOTE=sculptor]

your tax dollar at work, the forestry labs under the dept of ag. have lots of literature on tests they've been doing for well over 50 years---everything from efficiency of finishes to block absorbsion of atmospheric moisture, to the
characteristics of different species----and they'll send it to you free for the asking




pdf great reading material I downloaded this about a year ago . its been very helpful.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm

[RWJR]

This table was made out of pecan that was very rotten, I saturated it with varnish thinned to 50% over and over until it would take anymore, about 6 months after it was install in clients house it still bowed and popped apart. I had to shave off the bow and refinish, a few years later it's still doing fine. I used a steel structure embedded underneath for support. I love decayed wood, the look is so different, it just needs a little extra work to make it stable

[Biomorph]

Wood Splitting really seems to have struck a chord. A lot of valuable info. Let me take off from this discussion and ask about filling cracks. Assume that I have not been able to avoid all cracks. Some cracks can enhance a piece but others crop up in a way that spoils a profiile or a surface. People say mix sawdust with glue, but my experience has been that the paste, while structurally sound and workable, dries to a much darker color than the wood. any suggestions? Also, how do you feel about whittling splints or shims and driving them into the cracks, perhaps squaring off the cracks to get a good fit. Biomorph

[rberger54]

Just a personal feeling on the splitting issue - I kind of think that wood splits and checks filled in with a filler give a feel of a real biomorfic material. In Carvings I have done, I never try to hide them, I work aound them like a defect in a stone, it is the material you are working with.

I have always felt that if you want a perfect, consistent, homogeneous material with a manufactured feel - use plastic or cast plaster. If you want to take a natural material - you take the defects, recognize them work with them and around them. True, with extraordinary effort - time - and planning yoy can reduce splitting - with a lot of waste and luck and wood species choice - they can be eliminated.

I cut my teeth as a lad working in my Grandfathers Pattern Shop at a time when a lot of patterns were made with Mahagony. Perfect wood, dimensionally stable, consistent grain, few knots of any type. You may try to use some pattern maker blocks of mahagony.

[evaldart]

I have had to do a fair amount of repair work in my day and my solutions have been "all of the above" (and any more I might add to my repertoire). What has worked for me on huge splits is a parallel grain shimming, custom cut a long piece add glue and tap- in the long shim lengthwise, sand it back flush, for small crack I have used probably every version of putty available including some home-made versions. Color match usually decides which. But my finished surfaces forgive all this repair work pretty well since the planks have so much "character" (meaning they were probably run-over by a backhoe a few times).
Just got a pile of spruce 3 x 10's for my next commission. Gonna try something new. No gluing, no joining of the boards (I'll use 5 in all, 10 foot table)) gonna lag them through the steel frame from underneath. If they shrink I'll act real surprised and go back and unbolt them, Bessey them back tight, shift the planks a hair for new holes and rebolt them. Wish me luck.

[PTsideshow]

:rolleyes: sneaky little devil :rolleyes: Hope it works even if it takes years.
Have you thought of putting silicon or some slightly flex type glue in oversized holes and then the lag screws. Do one set of holes first with the lags tight then glue and lag the others. Then go back and do the first set after the glue sets up. In theory it should providesome expansion. Don't forget to use rubber washers between the iron and planks for some extra up and down movement.