Learning 3D for CAD-CAM systems

[lepow]

I reading this great book called Fab and I'm getting really excited about working in 3D to incorpate in my interactive sculptures and kinetic art projects. Can someone suggest a good software that I can use to start learn Cad-Cam. I run a Powerbook g4 1.25 512 mg ram and recently given a Dell p4 1 gigahertz. I don't know the spec on the pc because I primeraly use it to program microproccessors but I can add more ram and a nice video card if necessary.
Thank you!

[GaryR52]

Lepow, I've been a CAD technician (engineering and architecture) for over 16 years, so I can give you plenty of tips.

Are you planning to use CAD/CAM to produce mechanical parts, via CNC and/or rapid prototyping, or do you want to use 3D for design and animation? CAD is for design (Computer Aided Design), CAM is for manufacturing (Computer Aided Manufacturing), so, are you sure you want a CAD/CAM program, or are you really in need of a CAD program?

If the answer is just CAD, there are plenty of them out there, at all price levels from freeware to bloated behemoths costing several thousand dollars. Since I don't have clear idea of your intended use, I can't really say what your needs will be best served by.

If you're looking for the ability to send files to machinery that can produce parts for your sculptures, there are plenty of expensive MCAD applications, such as SolidWorks, that can readily accomodate this, but you can also acheive the same result with Autocad or some other CAD package that costs less.

Having said that, let me tell you about what I'm up to. You may be inspired to go the same route. I've been using 3D modeling software, including 3DS MAX and Rhino, as well as a kid's 3D application called Cosmic Blobs (very useful!) to make freeform abstract sculpture. I then use 3DS MAX to export my sculpture as STL (stereolithography) files that I can send to a rapid prototyping service bureau, where my sculptures will then be given physical form via Selective Laser Sintering (SLS), producing a wax pattern for investment casting. This process is much more flexible than CNC milling, which is limited in the range of shaping it can handle. SLS can produce forms that are impossible to produce by any other means. Something to consider, anyway.

Gary

[lepow]

Thank you Gary,
Yes my goal is to use the 3d apps to build physical objects with cams. Other then the cost are their any other benefits to using Autocad over Solidworks? Someone also suggested using Inventor. Any thoughts? I'm assuming I can run it on my 1 Gigahertz pc if I invest in a nice video card, maybe more ram.
Well Thank you for your thoughts and opinions I welcome anymore.
-ED

[GaryR52]

Either of them would work, Ed. Probably the better of the three, for this use, would be either SolidWorks or Inventor. I'm basing that on years of Autocad experience and none with either SolidWorks or Inventor, so it's only my perception that a dedicated solid modeler would work better than Autocad that I'm going by. As far as cost goes, they're each pretty expensive and there are better and cheaper modelers to use, in my opinion. But, all three would do the job, as far as creating 3D geometry and exporting it as an STL goes.

You could easily run any of these programs on your machine. Mine is only a 700mhz Pentium III and I've run Autocad R14 on it before. I also use several 3D modeling applications.

Gary

[oddist]

Look into Alibre (http://www.alibre.com/).

Low cost but powerful.

[GaryR52]

Yes, Alibre is a good solids modeler, also, and is a little less expensive than Solid Works and Autocad. I have a demo version of Alibre Design (the one recently given away to 100,000 people who signed up for it) and, though I haven't used it, yet, it has some powerful features, including fully associative modeling (you change one thing and the whole assembly updates with it, automatically). I'm not sure if it has much applicability to sculpture, unless you're working in a more geometric style. I work with organic shapes, which are not really the forte of any of this type of software.

If you're looking for organic modelers, check into something like Rhino or 3DS MAX, especially. MAX is pretty expensive (over $3,000), but you can use the demo version for 30 days, as I did, recently, and just using the parametric modeling controls (which are a breeze to use and give you realtime feedback), you can turn a single primitive shape into may different organic forms. On the cheap side of the organic modeling range, there is a 3D program for kids, called Cosmic Blobs (www.cosmicblobs.com) that is only about $49 and has a deceptively simple array of very powerful modeling tools, some of which do the same things as 3DS MAX. In fact, with some practice, I have been able to get the same types of forms in Cosmic Blobs that I was getting in the MAX demo. Cosmic Blobs' only drawback is its limited range of import/export options. It cannot import anything, period, and it is limited to exporting only in VRML 2 (.wrl) format. But, if coupled with AccuTrans, which is a freeware file converter (www.micromouse.ca), you can convert the .wrl to a .3ds, .dxf, STL or whatever you want. I use it to convert to 3DS, then I import that into Bryce 5 (http://bryce.daz3d.com/55index.php) for texturing and rendering. Cosmic Blobs has become my main modeling tool since the MAX demo expired.

Gary

[GaryR52]

I don't blame them, NYC. There are lots of tools to use besides Autocad, these days, and most are far better. The only reason Autodesk has the lion's share of the market is because they were an early entry into the CAD field and once most firms started using their product, the design industry got itself into a position in which, in order to communicate design with their clients and engineering associates, everyone had to be using the same thing, i.e. Autocad. This was because it was the only software with the DWG and DXF file formats. Since the mid-ninties, though, more and more competing products have been using the same DWG/DXF formats and it is no longer necessary for everyone to be using Autocad, thus, Autodesk's market share continues to dwindle each year as more firms switch to other software.

Of course, while greater choice in products is a good thing, it also has its downside, which I have written extensively about: http://garysworld.blogspot.com/2004/07/incredible-shrinking-job-market-how.html

Gary

[GaryR52]

I wanted to take a look at your Lost New York site, but the server seems to be down right now. Reminds me of a book, published in the seventies, "The Vanishing Splendor," a collection of old postcards of vanished Oklahoma City landmarks.

Gary

[Arrow]

I use Rhino 3 with no complaints. I hear good things about Blender but I have yet to try it out. Works on Windows and Macs.

http://www.blender3d.com/cms/Home.2.0.html

"open source software for 3D modeling... free to use and distribute within any educational, professional or commercial environment."

[GaryR52]

Seems to be working, now, NYC. Nice gargoyles.

I have Blender, but I've never managed to get much out of it. The interface is pretty strange and not at all user-friendly.

Gary

[Larky]

Hi all.

If you want to run to CAD/CAM systems then I'd go with Solidworks (this is not my area of experise however) but if you are simply looking at modelling various shapes and having them output with rapid prototyping machines then Silo is your best bet. It is $109 and with version 2.0 being released soon is well worth the money, the most intuitive modelling software I've ever used (I have been modelling in 3D for about 13 years now).

Also look at ZBrush, probably the closest thing you'll find to traditional clay sculpture.

Larky.

[GaryR52]

I tried the Silo demo once, Larky, but found the interface was less than user friendly, in my opinion. I haven't had the opportunity to try Z-Brush, but the price looks fairly reasonable. I have SketchUp, which is useful for modeling rectilinear subjects, mostly, and it costs about the same. Oddly enough, most of the digital sculpture I've done lately, all of it non-objective organic forms, has been done with a children's program called Cosmic Blobs, which I bought for a mere $49. It's very quick and easy and, though it looks deceptively like a toy, it has some very powerful modeling tools on board. It's only drawback is that it can only save in VRML 2 (.wrl), but, with the aid of AccuTrans 3D, a freeware converter, I can get a 3DS that can be rendered in Bryce 5, or I can get an STL that can be sent to any rapid prototyping bureau. I've been using renders as reference for handmade sculpture, lately. It may seem backward to use high tech tools, only to use low tech means of realizing the sculpture, but it's a lot more satisfying. :D

Gary

[dblcorona]

I would also recommend SolidWorks. And my understanding is that they have lowered the price for this program. I believe it is under a $100 now. If you can find one to play around with, I like Catia also.

[Andrew Werby]

Hi all.

If you want to run to CAD/CAM systems then I'd go with Solidworks (this is not my area of experise however) but if you are simply looking at modelling various shapes and having them output with rapid prototyping machines then Silo is your best bet. It is $109 and with version 2.0 being released soon is well worth the money, the most intuitive modelling software I've ever used (I have been modelling in 3D for about 13 years now).

[You're a real pioneer, Larky!]

Also look at ZBrush, probably the closest thing you'll find to traditional clay sculpture.

Larky.

[I've looked at it (actually I'm a reseller for that product), and it's an interesting blend of 2d and 3d approaches - you apply 2d textures that become 3d bumps and hollows. But if you want something that really approaches the experience of modeling in clay, try the force-feedback modeling tools from Sensable Technology (www.sensable.com). The arm device allows you to "touch" your 3d model, and manipulate the surface in real time; there's nothing else like it. They've recently come out with versions that are quite reasonably priced, considering that it's a hardware/software system, and that get along with several popular 3d programs: Maya, 3dsMax, and Rhino. It's difficult to explain how intuitive this makes the process of CAD modeling; you won't believe it until you've tried it yourself.]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[Navigator7]

I reading this great book called Fab and I'm getting really excited about working in 3D to incorpate in my interactive sculptures and kinetic art projects. Can someone suggest a good software that I can use to start learn Cad-Cam. I run a Powerbook g4 1.25 512 mg ram and recently given a Dell p4 1 gigahertz. I don't know the spec on the pc because I primeraly use it to program microproccessors but I can add more ram and a nice video card if necessary.
Thank you!

I don't see anybody accounting for the g-4 Mac.
If this post isn't timely, maybebe it will help someone else.

I use Ashlar Vellum Argon. It's dual platform and delicious to use.
As far as I know there are no MCAD program that run off a Mac.
Damn shame too.