casting the face

[Karen Kang]

Could someone please suggest materials and methods for making casts of 200 different faces (including the closed eyes)? I would like to find the cheapest material (I believe Aliginate is expensive). thank you...

[JAZ]

Hi Karen,
On Friday I visited Melita Westerlund's studio in Bar Harbor - you probably remember her from the COA show (hers were steel and sote ones near mine and also up nearer the building) - and we were talking about casting because I had just tried alginate on Egils' face. Melita showed me a cast she had made with a form of plaster impregnated gauze that is available in craft stores. It's similar to the type that used to be used for broken bones. She used it quite thinly. The result is of course nowhere near as detailed as with alginate, but if you are okay with that, just coat the inside with lots of vaseline and pour in plaster for your positive. That's the least expensive I know.
Can you describe your project for us?
JAZ

[grommet]

I've had pretty good luck with the plaster gauze. Remember to vaseline or coat the victim er I mean participants faces before putting the plaster on. When applying the plaster gauze, if adequately moistened, you can keep smoothing / massaging on the individual pieces until they have a finer finish.
Link to manufacturer...

http://www.pacon.com/arts_crafts/arts_crafts/plastr-craft_special-film.php

[daaub]

Plaster bandage alone is your cheapest. Alginate is not that pricey. The body Double Silicone stuff from Smooth-On is probably your most expensive. A one pound bag of alginate from a good large dental supplier will cost around $7 us. If your using a bunch of it you will save money by buying it in bulk, say by the 25 pounds or so. With this stuff at least you don't have to worry about ripping out someones eyebrows! Not too sure how much one pound will cover, I haven't used the stuff since I was in University. I remember people having problems getting direct plaster bandage off of arms and such because of it sticking to hair, even with using some vasaline.

You have to make a thin backing out of plaster so the alginate mold keeps its shape. Obviously more costly then using plaster bandage alone. Also, the alginate will begin shrinking once it starts to dry out so if your not pouring the mold in the near future you have to keep it moist. The great thing about alginate is it won't stick to hair and it will pick up every possible detail. If you use too much of it on the face, also goes with plaster, the weight of it will start to pull down on the skin and cheeks ect. and will slightly distort the face. The trick is to get as thin as a coat as you can while still having a strong enough mold.

Do you plan on doing 200 castings from one mold or 200 different people?
Sounds very interesting and labor intensive. Can you elaborate on your plans.

[Lunarburn]

Here are two sites that speicialize in life casting.

http://www.artmolds.com/index.cfm check out the moldgel (Prosthetic grade), it is a alginate material that is more durable then the dental alginate.

http://www.pinkhouse.com/index.html check out the Gypsona Plaster Bandages, they have them in 6 in and 16 in wide. the wide bandages are nice to cut down on the need to overlap, which can interfer with your detail. Also the gypsona is a higher grade paster which gives premium detail as opposed to the bandages you will fine at you craft store.

Both these sites have alot of tips and tricks.

[Lunarburn]

Here are two sites that speicialize in life casting.

http://www.artmolds.com/index.cfm check out the moldgel (Prosthetic grade), it is a alginate material that is more durable then the dental alginate.

http://www.pinkhouse.com/index.html check out the Gypsona Plaster Bandages, they have them in 6 in and 16 in wide. the wide bandages are nice to cut down on the need to overlap, which can interfer with your detail. Also the gypsona is a higher grade paster which gives premium detail as opposed to the bandages you will fine at you craft store.

Both these sites have alot of tips and tricks.

[realsculpt]

here is a how-to link i did on lifecasting where i used to work, this is with alginate.

http://www.fxwarehouseinc.com/facecast.shtml there is some others on the site too.

do not use dental alginate with mint or flavoring it can burn thier eyes (sting) and cause allergic reactions. it sounds like plaster bandages are your best bet dont forget the vasiline. Jonhnson and johnson are ok, cliniset are the best and tend to be the cheapoest, whatever brand makesure they are not too old or kept in a damp place. you should not pay more than 3.75 a roll, places like pearl art will charge alot more so check out medical supply places in the phone book, they will sell them to you very cheap.

[BMBourgoyne]

you can consider moulage-- I forget what composes it, but I believe it is a gelatine or glue-like material. It can be melted at low temperatures (about 100 degree F), brushed on or poured over a form, and solidifies to a rubber-like consistancy as it cools to room temp. The molds made from it are pretty weak and can only make one cast, but it can be cut up and re-melted for re-use over and over. Casters use to use it before rubber mold-making was developed. Its still used by special effects designers.

You can get it at most sculpting supply places, even Dick Blick has it online. I believe I've ordered it from the Sculpture House before (www.sculptshop.com)

If you use it, make sure you have accurate control of the temperature-- most users recommend using a wax pot designed for melting theraputic waxes. If you let it get too hot, you can seriously burn the person you are molding.

good luck,
Brad

[obseq]

I can also confirn that alginate is affordable--

When I used it for life-casting,
I also paid $7 US per one pound bag from a local dental supply store.
(Cherry flavor, no less ;) )

As always, buying in bulk will usually result in discounts.

Essential materials can include: Alginate, lots of Vaseline, plaster bandages(you can find these at a medical supply store--
Roughly $20 US for a box of 12 rolls.)

Good luck!

<<<<Plaster bandage alone is your cheapest. Alginate is not that pricey. The body Double Silicone stuff from Smooth-On is probably your most expensive. A one pound bag of alginate from a good large dental supplier will cost around $7 us. >>>>

[Karen Kang]

I am so sorry...
I have not logged in here in a while. thank you to everyone for your advice and information. This was a project that an Asian American women artist group in NY was embarking on. I have not heard from them regarding what they used. It was one cast of 200 or so different artists' faces. I will have to see what they ended up using... I have a feeling only plaster. When it is displayed I will forward pictures.

This is a great community! thanks again and I will be a more frequent visitor...

[dirdim]

I realize the project may not materialize, but saw the thread and thought I'd put in 2-cents worth...

Last summer at Wired magazine's NextFest technology worlds fair in Chicago we set up one of our 3D laser scanning cameras and captured over 200 individual faces in the course of the weekend. Each scan takes about a minute including setup time for the subject. We processed each person's face into a 3D color interactive visualization on personalized websites and sent each person a link to their own site. The response was fantastic!

Here is a link to a page on our soon to be released updated website that shows several of these: Direct Dimensions - FaceScan (http://www.dirdim.com/newtest/port_facescan.htm). The links are broken from the faces on the page so in the field at the bottom type in the first name and 1st letter of last name (no spaces, for example Adam C. would be "adamc").

You will need to be using a PC (vs. a Mac) and if it's the first time an ActiveX plug-in will install that is very small and very safe.

When you see the faces, hold down mouse buttons and move about to see the faces move around. Very cool eh? I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks -

Michael Raphael

[JAZ]

Typing in the name at the bottom doesn't help. Otherwise, this is an interesting project, and must be similar to the process that Rona Pondick uses in some of her work, but probably expensive. I've seen some of your case study images in ads in Sculpture magazine. This isn't a commercial, right?
JAZ

[dirdim]

Hi Jaz,

Thanks for the reply. Sorry you can't get the FaceScan's to work. Are you on a Mac? I just checked - they're working fine for my PC. As noted a small safe ActiveX plug-in must load, you need to check "yes" when prompted for the install. Perhaps it's something else. And again you only need to type in the persons first name and first initial of last name as in "adamc" in the field (no spaces, all lower case).

As for Rona, funny you mention her, we've worked with her for a few years. Amazingly creative work and totally pushing the edge, as we are with several other very big names in New York and elsewhere. I wish I could name others - I think you'd be impressed.

As usual the best stuff is not on our website, we're not allowed to show it. Come by one day...

Michael

[JAZ]

Perhaps I will come by sometime.
I did use the names as instructed and am on a PC. However I got no prompt about the plug-in. But it's no crime because I really do get the idea. It is amazing.
JAZ

[Merlion]

This is not about FaceScan, but about face casting. My question is simple as I have not done it myself.

On a Discovery Travel & Adventure TV program about Venice, it shows face casting being done using plaster, to make a Venetian carnival mask.

What I don't understand is that the person is asked to stay still with the plaster in place for 45 min. I suppose it does not take so long, does it?

[Landseer]

What I don't understand is that the person is asked to stay still with the plaster in place for 45 min. I suppose it does not take so long, does it?
I never heard of plaster taking 45 mins to harden, all the plaster I ever used sets fast- like under 10 minutes, could you mean that moulage or rubber which is applied warm and has to cool to firm up, and then maybe a plaster shell moulded over it for support together take 45 mins?

That makes more sense timewise for BOTH processes- applying the moulage and letting it set, then moulding plaster over for the mother mold and letting that set.

[obseq]

I never heard of plaster taking 45 mins to harden, all the plaster I ever used sets fast- like under 10 minutes, could you mean that moulage or rubber which is applied warm and has to cool to firm up, and then maybe a plaster shell moulded over it for support together take 45 mins?

That makes more sense timewise for BOTH processes- applying the moulage and letting it set, then moulding plaster over for the mother mold and letting that set.


Yeah-- That is a bit odd.

Each time I've worked with plaster, I'm clock watching because of the quick set time.

I agree that it would make more sense that additional layering adds to the set time.

[Merlion]

As the TV journalist who was the model was asked to stay still for 45 min, it sounds logical that the shop first made a rubber flexible mold followed by plaster mother mold. On the other hand, she was only making one face mask. So why would they need to make a flexible mold?

On the TV program, I saw the shop assistant dripping white liquid that clearly look like plaster onto the model's face.

Perhaps the 45 min reported at the program was wrong. And to make sure, we'll send Blake to get a lady to snow ski over to Venice and try it out. :)

[dirdim]

[QUOTE=Merlion]This is not about FaceScan, but about face casting. ... /QUOTE]


Yeah I realize this Merlion, but I guess I didn't make my point clear that the FaceScan process is a non-contact 3D laser that is very quick and hence eliminates the need for any painful material cure time. I am suggesting it can be an alternative to traditional methods, depending on the purpose for the art.

By the way, beside visualizations, a physical model can be produced from the digital data using rapid prototyping plus it can be re-scaled or otherwise manipulated.

Michael

[Merlion]

Yeah I realize this Merlion, but I guess I didn't make my point clear that the FaceScan process is a non-contact 3D laser that is very quick and hence eliminates the need for any painful material cure time. I am suggesting it can be an alternative to traditional methods, depending on the purpose for the art.

By the way, beside visualizations, a physical model can be produced from the digital data using rapid prototyping plus it can be re-scaled or otherwise manipulated.

Michael, as I am a retired professor of mechanical engineering, I am aware of digital 3D scanning and solid model rapid prototyping, and I can if necessary draw on the expertise and perhaps facilities of my ex-colleagues on such techniques.

Having said that, for making 3D sculptures, the cost of both processes are way too high comparied with the cheap clay and plaster.

Also these are very much reproductive and not creative processes.

[BMBourgoyne]

I'm sorry for dragging the thread off-topic, but...

Merlion,
really
how can you say that 3d digitizing and modeling are "reproductive and not creative processes?" Is this true of casting? of photography?
A computer is just another tool, and digital data is just another media like clay or plaster. Can you honestly characterize a process or medium in those terms? I believe that those characterizations should be saved for how an individual utilizes a media. The creative potential of digital technology is enormous. I personally believe that it will revolutionize how we make and use physical objects, including sculpture, in the way that casting did so so many thousands of years ago. The technology is still in its infancy, but its coming.

Also, it may still cost a little too much for those who do not utilize it on a regular basis, but compared to what skilled labor costs, its becoming very competitive-- and more so every day. This is especially true if one uses slightly older technology and doesn't try to stay on the "bleeding edge." And the potential of a digital scan is light years beyond what can be done with a plaster cast of someone's face. And the subject does not have to endure the time and discomfort of a face cast.

Now I'm not arguing that traditional, manual techniques are inferior. Quite to the contrary. Making sculpture will always be about making physical objects, which will always mean getting your hands dirty. But digital techniques can vastly expand how we utilize those manual techniques, and change how we think about them.

just my opinion,

Brad M. Bourgoyne

[Merlion]

Hi Brad, It is true my two sentences are too brief to do sufficient justice to digital 3D scanning and rapid prototyping. I do not intend to dismiss them, and why should I with my background in mechanical engineering lecturing and research.

My brief comments are more a knee jerk response to Michael who seem to imply that I could benefit by making use of the digital 3D scanning for my sculpture work. This is just when I am trying hard to really master and get creative with the traditional figure sculpture modeling skills and techniques.

Perhaps a few more years down the road when I can really be proud of my works, I may turn to combining my basic skills with modern technology. By then I may be 70 years old. :p

[Tandigon]

Perhaps you should try Agar-Agar formula which then looks like a gel pudding. All you got to do is chip chop the pudding into little bits and put it in a double boiler until it becomes a liquid gravy. Then you turn off the heat and it begins to cool down. You apply it directly to the face when its just above body temperature and you will know you have to stop when it just stops flowing. Have the plaster bandages ready and cut in lenghts of half circumfrentials to apply as the mother. When the bandages have set you can get the impression off the face to cast plaster or wax. Did I help?

[Tandigon]

And I forgot to mention that after finishing your casting, you can recover the Agar-agar face impression, cut it up again for use in the next and the next. This is a reversible impression material. Cheap? Of course!

[Merlion]

Thanks Tandigon for these useful information on face casting.

Agar Agar is easily available here from shops as this is what traditional local jelly is made of. I understand that it is made of a type of sea weed. So effectively this is alginate which when purchased from art material suppliers is expensive.

It is a useful tip to know that agar agar starts to gel when close to body temperature.

Karen Kang who originally asked the question in Nov 05 has since said in Jan 06 that her project might not proceed. But face casting should be of interest to others in this Forum.

[k10whosun]

http://plasterlinks.com/

[dondougan]

Merlion,

There are many types of plaster available in Italy, and by far the most common one is NOT fast-setting plaster (known as gesso alabastrino), but scagliola. Scagliola has a few less molecules of water burnt-out of it during the calcining process, and as a result takes a good bit longer to set.
My students (when I teach there) usually try to use the faster-setting gesso alabastrino if available, but once or twice they have by necessity used the scagliola and the victim (er, subject) on one occasion found it to be interminable and literally destroyed the mold because of claustrophobia.

just a thought as to the 45-minutes . . .

Don
www.dondougan.com

[drcrash]

I looked on Google Books and found a book with recipes for agar moulage. (Reusable stuff.) It's The Materials and Methods of Sculpture, by Jack C. Rich.

Here's a link to excerpts from the book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=hW13qhOFa7gC&pg=RA1-PA96&lpg=RA1-PA96&dq=agar+moulage&source=web&ots=ODYR6myu7T&sig=JwBQFcsVeJFyi313qcvT_6AUhgU#PRA1-PA99,M1

The recipes on page 97 and 99 look easy enough.

(I belive that "magnesium sulfate" is Epsom salts, but Epsom salts is a hydrated form of magnesium sulfate, so I'm not sure.)

If anybody tries these things, or knows of other moulage recipes, please post.

[k10whosun]

You can get plaster bandages for the face masks below:

http://orthotape.com/caraflex_plaster_of_paris_bandages_casting.asp

I've seen good instructions and how to's at plaster links:

http://plasterlinks.com/plaster_masks.html

[drcrash]

Agar agar is different from alginate.

One interesting way it's different is that it's reusable. You can cut up old agar and melt it down in double boiler, and make new molds from it. You're supposed to be able to reuse the stuff dozens of times.

If you want it to be reusable, you need to add a preservative, to keep it from getting moldy. The traditional preservative is Chinosol (a.k.a. 8-hydroxyquinoline sulfate a.k.a. oxyquinoline sulfate). Unfortunately, I don't know where to get that in small quantities cheap. (After a disappointing experiment using wintergreen oil, I'm going to try Germaben-II, which you can buy on eBay for preserving handmade lotions etc.)

You can find recipes and directions for agar moulage in this old book:

Facial and Body Prosthesis
Carl D. Clarke

It's out of print but I had no problem getting it sent to my local public library via interlibrary loan

The basic recipe I'm experimenting with goes something like this:

about 5 oz of agar powder
1 oz borax
1/5 oz alum (from the grocery store)
a few fluid ounces of glycerin or sorbitol
some preservative, and
enough water to bring that up to 3 quarts.

Soak the agar in half of the water (cold) for several hours

mix the borax, alum, and some water in another pan, heat and stir until they're dissolved. Add the glycerin or sorbitol, and heat that mix close to boiling.

Put the soaked agar and its water in a double boiler. Heat until close to boiling, stirring occasionally until the agar is well melted.

Mix the borax, alum, and some water in another pan, heat and stir until they're dissolved. Add the glycerin or sorbitol, and heat that mix close to boiling.

Stir the second mixture into the first one in the double boiler. Bring the whole thing to nearly boiling, so that it gets thin and the bubbles mostly float out.

---

The borax makes the jelling thing work better, and toughens the set agar. The alum counteracts and annoying tendency of borax, which is to keep plaster from setting properly in contact with the mold.

You want a good double boiler setup, where the inner pot sits entirely inside the outer pot, so that you can get the stuff up to very nearly boiling. If you don't, it never gets really runny and you get more bubbles staying in the goo.

In the U.S., you can get agar powder and borax powder at most asian grocery stores. Most of them sell Telephone brand agar in a .85 oz packet for about $1.09. I use six packets for the recipe above.

You can also use shredded agar, which is a bit cheaper and may actually be better. Use a bit more (its moisture content is higher and its agar content is lower.), and let it soak overnight before melting it.

The glycerin or sorbitol keeps the agar from drying out completely, and I think it makes it easier to cook without getting crusty scum around the edge that dries out and won't dissolve anymore.