Gluing metal

[Biomorph]

I am using small pieces, say 2" or 3" square, of thin copper or steel, say .005 or thinner, lying flat. I glue them together in various shapes that can give me a reasonable amount of flat surface to take the glue. I also need to attach some pieces to wood dowels. As to the metal, perhaps I should become adept at soldering, but I want flexibilty to move the pieces around before I attach them. Also, the heat would affect the patinas I use. These are small, light, indoor, wall sculptures. I have used liquid epoxy, which works, but doesn't make a very good bond. Gorilla glues dry with a great increase in volume that raises to connections and requires trimming. Maybe solid epoxy or metal glues like liquid steel? Any suggestions? Biomorph

[Studioinde]

have you tried roughing up the surface of the metal to be glued with sandpaper first? That will help your bond quite a bit. Cyanoacrylate (sp?) glues work good....superglue in other words. 2 part epoxies work good also. I like West Systems Epoxy. It's a marine grade epoxy. My other favorite is a product called PC-7, or PC-11 if it needs to be waterproof. These are also two part systems, and they dry to a grey color. As long as you don't sqeeze all the glue out of the joint, they are strong permanant bonds that only will fail after curing if you apply heat with a heat gun. Hope this helps.

[Jay Long]

two part epoxys are your best bet, how ever I have not seen anything that will last forever, I have used a epoxy called JB weld on engines, and this stuff holds up to the heat, but it is not a cure all, super glues I have found work great at first, but then lose there adhesive after time, The problem you have is the difference in materials, I did use a 3m product. I think it is called 2900, It is a marine adhisive that really sticks, In fact you could stick aluminum to wood, and when you tried to pull the wood off the aluminum, it would split the wood before the bond would break. this stuff comes in black and white.....Jay

[iowasculptor]

Check out this website:
www.thistothat.com
just type in the materials you want to glue and it will tell you the exact glue to use.
Matt

[tonofelephant]

Iowa sculptor,

Thanks. Very nice website. I always have a need to glue dissimilar stuff.

Carl

[Landseer]

Wood glues work so well because the act of clamping two boards together forces the glue into the pores of the wood, the result is usually the bond is stronger than the wood. This lacks where hard materials like metal and plastics are concerned- there are no open pores like you see on an oak board, so yes, roughing with sandpaper will help as would doing a little further into the surface where the glue will go- to create little cavities, maybe by drilling a few very small shallow holes so the glue will fill them and lock in.

Most superglues etc seem to fair after a while, one drop may hold a ton but after a while it gives out. I have used JB weld and 5 minute epoxy at work, it won't work on some plastics at all and I wasn't happy with either for general repairs on other things.

I always used Elmer's white glue on any terra cotta salvage that was broken, the stuff was stronger than the terra cotta and didn't deteriorate over time. The one time I used Duco cement for this purpose, a few weeks later the repair came apart on it's own in the middle of the night- I had glued the broken head of a gargoyle back to the body, the head was about softball sized, not all that much and the Duco cement seemed to hold fine till one morning I came home and found the head on the floor, so I went back to Elmer's. Can't use it on metal though.


I notice on that site it says this about JB weld;

The City of Dallas, Texas repaired a cracked Caterpillar engine block with J-B Weld and saved $4,000.00 plus 30 hours down time.

The only thing is, that is NOT in any way a permanent fix, they have not saved $4,000 they only staved off the inevitable a little longer and when the repair gives out it might be during a storm or something when they really NEED that equipment! The operator is blissfully unaware of what is going on under the hood while listening to his walkman, and by the time he realises he has a problem- the engine is seized or worse- a rod through the block.

[dondougan]

Biomorph,

For the size and relative surface are you are gluing just use silicone rubber adhesive -- it will be plenty strong enough for broad flat areas. If you buy white or clear varieties in a caulking tube it is inexpensive (10 ounces for about the same as a 1-oz syringe-type package of 5-minute epoxy). Even if you buy the more expensive 6-ounce squeeze-tube it is ounce-for-ounce less expensive than epoxy, and though it fills gaps it doesn't have the expansion issues of the urethane-type 'Gorilla' glues.

Another advantage if you use the silicone is that when set it is OK for use up to about the melting point of lead (about 500-degrees F), so you can actually apply hot patinas to the front surface of your metal sheets afterwards.

I don't use it for everything, but whenever the work calls for an adhesive to join broad surface areas on relatively light-weight materials, plus requiring gap-filling properties when joining a variety of different materials, then silicone is by far the least expensive way to go.

[GWayne]

Biomorph,

Hi! The adhesives that I have used with great success are Liquid Nails, ZAP-A-DAP-A-GOO, and Goop.

Hope the above info is helpful for you.

GWayne

http://www.georgewayne.com

[Stevem]

Hey Biomorph. I have used glue like you are wanting in doing automotive repair. There is a product made by 3m called Duramix it comes in three different application types:
4176/6OZ WORK TIME 20 MIN, BOND 4 HOURS, SMALL PANEL
4178/6OZ WORK TIME 45 MIN, BOND TIME 6 HOURS. MEDIUM PANEL SIZE
4179/6OZ WORK TIME 1 HOUR, BOND TIME 6 HOURS. LARGE PANEL SIZE

DURAMIX URETHANE ADHESIVES HAVE BEEN CRASH TESTED AND PROVEN TO BE AS STRONG AS WELDING. ELIMINATES BURN THROUGH WELDS AND WARPAGE OF METAL.

In the past I have used these adhesives to Glue roof tops, Quater panels and fenders.

Hope this helps,
Steve

[jsimms]

Check with 3m and their double stick VHB (very high bond) tapes. www.3m.com/VHB

I've had great luck with them! Contact their rep in your area, and you'll get samples. Staples and most hardware stores now carry some, but there are many more available. Auto makers now use them to adhere trim.
John