Question? 1st time finishing marble

[Orlando]

New to forum and I am an ameture. I have sculpted soapstone for years but only a couple of pieces a year. I started my 1st piece of marble, (6' tall white carrara -ordinario). I have finished sanding and am ready to seal it. I am scared to death. I am not sure exactly what to do. I have a can of special liquid stone wax from Italy. The directions say to put it on with a clean cloth, wait a couple of minutes and wipe it of. Then I have the option of buffing it.
Question is,
1) do I need to rouge it?
2) if so what king of rouge?
3) if so, do I roughe it before or after I seal it?
4) Someone told me white mable should only be sanded up to 220 grit. They said it looks flat if you go beyond 220. For that reason I did not used tin oxide, (which I have never used before anyway). Should I use it?
5) if not, do I need to buff it at all after sealing it?
6) if so, do I use a compound or just a cotton wheel right on the wax seal coat?
7) how many coats of wax sealer?
8) how long to dry betwwen coats?

As you can see, I NEED HELP :confused:

Please help soon. I have tomorrow off, 4th of July, and was planning on sealing it then.
Thank you.
Sal Orlando

[sculptor]

Orlando:
One step backward please.
Why do you want to seal the marble?
is it going outside?
Is it going out in the (acid?)rain? or under cover?
snow?
ice?
is it going into a high traffic area with lots of touching?
what does it look like?
lots of deep undercuts facing the weather?

assuming you wish to seal it to protect it from something,
what is that(are those) something(s)?

long ago and far away, someone once told me that is easier to get somewhere if you know where you're going.

if you want directions from me, I gotta know where you're going

[Orlando]

I guess it is not truly a seal coat. It is more like a marble polish. Since it contains wax I figured it sealed it. The product is "CeraFluida", (natural stone liquid wax). If it sells at the Sculpture show, (which I hope it doesn't) the new owner might put it outside. I hope to keep it inside. It has a lot of negative space. Many curves and chanels and holes.

I was talking to the person who told me to stop at 220. Now she tells me that is for Yull marble. She said for Carrara I can go up to 600 and use the tin oxide.

[G. Murdoch]

Orlando,

A finish for marble that my very experienced friend Ramon swears by is two coats of danish oil, followed by carnuba wax. Apply danish oil with cloth, wait 20 min, wipe off excess with different cloth, repeat. Ramon, by the way got his introduction to stone sculpture by working in the quarry at Carrerra for a year (1962).

Graham

[Landseer]

I'd bet cash that this stuff is nothing more than some ordinary liquid wax they buy in 55 gallon drums for $2 a gallon, pump out into little bottles with their label on it (making it 'special') and then turn around and charge $12.95 for this 'special' stone waxing product.

It could be little more than very ordinary floor wax in a fancy bottle, and I have seen this sort of thing quite a few times- that's why I'm always skeptical about these little products in the expensive bottles that label themselves "special" but when opened smell exactly like rubbing alcohol, butchers wax or some other instantly recognizable odor.
Sculpture House' "special Sculpture house brand mold seperator" I learned years ago was little more than alcohol with some blue coloring and a small amount of castor oil you could make yourself at home for a dollar LOL

[Orlando]

Orlando,

A finish for marble that my very experienced friend Ramon swears by is two coats of danish oil, followed by carnuba wax. Apply danish oil with cloth, wait 20 min, wipe off excess with different cloth, repeat. Ramon, by the way got his introduction to stone sculpture by working in the quarry at Carrerra for a year (1962).

Graham
Doesn"t danish oil have a little color to it? What ever I put on it I want it to be clear. Thank you for the tip. TENAX is the brand of stone wax, CeraFluida is the name. I do not know if it has any special qualities or not. I spent $10 on it. I am not too worried about the cost. My concern is technique. Any helpful hint would be appreciated.

[G. Murdoch]

Ted raised the same concern a couple weeks ago regarding the yellowing that might take place with danish oil. Soon I will have 3 white yule marbles sanded to 220, then I will have to try it myself. I am wondering if mineral oil, followed by carnuba wax would be more appropriate for white? The last marble sculpture I finished (a green one) with a commercial stone sealer (some petroleum distillate, toxic as hell, 2 minutes breathing in that stuff, headache all day) followed by carnuba wax. The combo of oil then wax appeals as the oil permeates and the wax protects and shines.

Graham

[Paulart52]

Hello everyone, as far as 'Danish Oil' is concerned, I assume you mean the Danish Oil Wood Finish made by folks like Watco in California. It is great on wood and does not collect dust while drying, but I can definately tell you, it does yellow....I work alot with pine and maple and even the cherry,mahogany,walnut, and other woods continue to get darker with age, sometimes real quick. The formula I read about 20 years ago for Danish Oil was 33% Spar Varnish,33% linseed Oil, and 33% mineral spirits or Turpintine, the other 1% is perspiration. Anyway, this was in Fine WoodWorking Magazine, and if you ever have used any of these items, you will know what I am saying about yellowing. Good luck with finding a good sealer, I hope this helps, Paul

[dondougan]

Orlando,

The Tenax is a good product formulated especially for stone. The effect it gives is not achievable with common hardware store waxes and polishes. When applied it seals and changes the surface of the stone so it looks 'wet' — the degree of polish (gloss) of course depends on the grit you finished-up the surface of the stone.
Applying Tenax Cera Liquida to a surface finished only to 200 grit will deepen the color but will not add much appreciable gloss — for a visual comparison think of how the stone looks when wetted completely with water but patted with a rag until only damp (no liquid water left on the surface).

I use a variety of waxes and sealers on stone depending on what effect I desire for a particular piece. I often mix several stones together in individual sculptures, with some of them polished, some textured, some waxed, some with natural patinas, etc. (www.dondougan.com)

If you want a high gloss wet-sand the stone with the highest silicon-carbide wet/dry sandpaper grit you can find (1200 grit is available, but 600 grit is much more common). The Tenax (or similar product by Akemi) will provide a rich, deep gloss after buffing.

If you want to use the tin-oxide polishing-powder it will take the surface to about the equivalent of 3000 grit. You still will need to use the Tenax or another sealer because though the stone is smoother it still has miniscule pores on the surface that need sealing. Tenax will provide a richer, deeper and higher-gloss than oil finishes or paste waxes.

If you use tin oxide in conjunction with oxalic acid (wear rubber gloves - it is toxic and can be absorbed through the skin) to polish the marble it will actually fuse the calcium carbonate crystals together on the surface of the stone making it almost nonporous and you will achieve a high porcelain-like gloss. Use of Tenax or Akemi wax/sealer is superfluous with this labor-intensive finish.

On light-colored marbles/stones Danish oil finishes will tend to yellow the overall appearance somewhat. On dark stones this slight color-change will not matter.

High gloss is not necessarily the best finish for all forms — sometimes the visual reflections it allows detract from the details of the carved form, where a matte finish will allow the viewer to distinguish subtle variations in the form. This applies in a tactile sense as well — sometimes a highly polished stone will seem 'artificial' and plastic-like when compared to surfaces with slight 'tooth' to them. There are no hard-and-fast rules — as the artist you will have to determine the effect that best matches the expression of form you desire.

And finally, don't worry about the perfect finish. Many is the time I have come back and modified (deliberately scratching, scuffing, or dirtying-up with various materials) surfaces I had polished so carefully because when I finished it the polish was simply too pristine-looking.

Don