Talented and manic depressive; OR average and normal?

[oscar]

The best thing to do is erase everything. My funk is temporary. I'll cycle out of this soon as I always do.

thanks c-ya

[Arrow]

A good agent can make almost anything look important.

[oscar]

Just where is this good agent? Should I close my eyes and wish really hard?

[anatomist1]

Sorry if this is going to seem too personal, but it seems to me you've invited it with this "poll".

Sounds to me like you are deeply invested in a paradigm of personal victimhood bordering on martyrdom. I'd say fame is the last thing you need. The world is not going to rearrange itself to suit you. If you want to succeed in a big, complicated system involving thousands of people, you have to be willing to compromise, change, and learn... the first step is to stop blaming diseases and society and take responsibility for yourself. Good luck.

[fused]

He said nothing about compromising your artwork and everything about taking personal responsibility and dealing with your issues.

[anatomist1]

Heh heh. I'm beginning to think your whole persona here is a prank. Your response to my suggestion that you have a problem with personal victimhood mythology is to cast me as an ignorant, insensitive villain in a long line of such villains who have victimized you... even attributing additional villainous opinions to me that are obviously not in my post.

I just don't believe that manic-depression caused you to helplessly alienate all those people and burn all those bridges, or to respond in this way to my post. It may provide you with more impulses towards anti-social behavior than most people, and it may make things more difficult overall, but you are the one who chooses how you behave. It's simply a fact of cognition and motor behavior. The only involuntary behaviors are autonomic, and non-specific actions like shivering or seizures. Any other kind of behavior requires making decisions about what to do and how to do it.

Considering your arrival at this forum and your own reports of your history, I'd say your concepts and strategies for dealing with people are far more to blame than your brain chemistry or the state of society. Conceptually, you need to start considering others' points of view, and that needs to be reflected in your strategy.

You came on here asking loaded questions rather than open-ended ones, and argued hyperbolically with responses you didn't like. People don't like that - they like to be asked what they think and listened to when they respond. You told us what to think about your problems and what conclusions to draw without providing us with any facts or giving us any reason to sympathize with you. People don't like that either - they like stories, they like to be drawn in and seduced, not clubbed over the head. Instead of showing us your work and allowing us to decide for ourselves, you launched right into bragging about your greatness and extreme talent. People don't like to be told what to think, they like to decide for themselves... Anyway, those are some examples of what I'm talking about. I don't think any can be blamed on involuntary manic-depressive behavior or on external villains.

[JasonGillespie]

oscar,

Talent, even great quantities of it, aside for the moment,....being a functional human being is the first and foremost goal we should all have. Our talent is not anything that will save us from our inner demons, we must treat the problems we all face no matter what we do. And though art is what we do...it is not the totality of who we are. Perhaps if you focus upon the distinction between yourself and your talent you can see the priority of healing yourself first and your career second.

Do what you must to help yourself...get as well as is possible within the context of your mind and body with no thought for your art. If your art is what you say it is..your passion, a consuming love.....it will still be with you no matter what. But when you are well you will be able to pursue your career with no obstructions. I may be wrong,but it may be that putting your art before your well-being may be the cause of so much of your unhappiness.

I don't think anyone here would ask you to deny your talent. I would caution against, however, thinking that your illness is the source of that talent.

Your talent is an integral part of you, in your personality, in your genes, it is your own individual and unique way of looking at the world...and...your illness is not. It may be something that has happened to you and be connected to you, but it does not define you. You are more than your problem...as we are all more than those things that beset us through out this life.

[JasonGillespie]

OK, I would rather be 'normal',.......but I have many other interests than art..though it is the greatest. I don't believe were I to be mediocre in art that I would then be mediocre in everything. There are a number of things that I feel I could excell at were art removed as a possibility.

I also don't think 'insanity', as you put it, has a great deal to do with greatness. The majority of great artists down through the ages were not insane...though perhaps some were dysfunctional. To be human is to have problems...some more than others, but again, they do not define us.....unless we allow them to do so.

[Studioinde]

are those the only two options? Sure, many of the greatest creative minds have suffered from bipolar disorder, but I don't think that it is a prerequisite.....I'm perfectly happy the way I am, and without "outing" myself, I'll leave it to you to guess which camp I fall into.......
Regards,
Brian

[JasonGillespie]

If you want the intent of the poll to be clearer you might remove the question below from the end of your first post:


How can an extremely gifted manic depressive sculptor who has pissed off everyone and thrown out of art schools and even States, gain acceptance?

The natural inclination is to respond to the above inquiry because it seems to be a sincere one.

[MountainSong]

:confused: I’m just guessing much of this thread has been edited because what is here doesn’t make sense unless much of the content was removed at some point.

If it is helpful Oscar, rejection is one of the most difficult things we as artist deal with, we are rejected for many reasons which are not necessarily reflective of our talent or interpersonal skills, and may have more to do with the needs of the entity who’s deciding how much room they have in the exhibit or what art fits in the theme of the show. Learning how to roll with the punches becomes a very important tool in our artist tool box, because there will always be rejection.

Also the creative process and everything around it is very cyclic and has many ups and downs. Knowing when we are off our mark and not in a place to respond well and having the wisdom to withdraw from the public until we are back in control and feeling confident again is another critical skill set. Many artists have blown their relationship with a good gallery by going off the emotional deep end when they could have avoided it by staying home until their mood improved and they were emotionally back in control. With time we learn to recognize our cycles and learn how best to deal with them, whether that means it’s time to create or time to step back.
I hope this has been helpful in some way for you.

[Scout]

I'm new here, but I think I get the drift of this thread and I must say that I hope Oscar (respectfully) takes the advice of all these people here. If you don't start looking to the common denominator here, your life will be ....as it is now. I'm sure you have very high energy, positive times but these dark times (which you CAN control) over shadow the goodness in you. The pendulum swings, don't let it come back and kick you down. Do the art you love and all else will follow! Did you post your work somewhere? I'd like to see it. Scout

[sculptor]

hey Oscar
assuming you're in the funk phase of the bipolar

may I suggest that you've likely impressed more folks, and made more friends during the upside than you've "pissed off" at the cusp

Don't give up on your upside friends
try them again and again---call 'em up, they may miss hearing from you

I had a close friend with bipolar disorder, my son in the peace corps carries his name-Michael
He quit the lithium cause he liked the energy and etc of the upside which he could ride for months at a time, always thinking he could time the swing and get back on--------(the best laid plans of mice and manics gang aft aglay)--
after his panic-cusp came the depression wherein he would convince himself that everyone was pissed off at him and didn't ever want to see him again--
he was wrong, ofcourse
so, I had to go detective to find him after these episodes-------
but was always glad when i saw him again----
first, he moved to another city, then when we moved, i lost track of him
and I miss him still

none of us are perfect
don't expect this of yourself

[mark pilato]

Hi Oscar,
sounds like you are in the shit, delving with no were to go but down, you can try to sculpt but it's very hard when you are in this place sometimes it even brings you deeper. I sculpted for a year this way sometimes i would be flying above water my hands stretched out then I would be plunged under drowning in the dark. For me I came to an understanding that the ski was still blue. Let me try to explain - When it seems like the world is all wrong and happiness is lost to distant memory and the rain burns, try to find the beauty in life - even if its just a glimmer - then hold it. I know its easer to say then to do, to step out side oneself and look around. Maybe its in nature you will find the answer, maybe in a flower, in the way a bird sings, in the blue ski, in the sounds that surround you. Go out side and smell a flower and look to its color. If its raining find a body of water and watch and listen to the dance of the rain as it falls and finds its way. I guess what I am trying to say is it's out there and all you have to do is open your eyes to see it. Here a trick that works for me, get a good book on tape, Christopher Moore is always cool,( "The Stupidest Angle" is great,) then start to sculpt wile listening to the story soon your right side of your brain will be sculpting and your left - the one that is giving you all the trouble will be busy listening, after a bit of time your problems will drift a way wile your confused unwanted friend hangs and chills with Moore building confidence for a better day. Best of luck,and
all the best,
Mark

[anatomist1]

Oscar, you sly dog. You've been studying that copy of "How To Win Friends And Influence People" while you were away, haven't you?

[Arrow]

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/oscar-figure-01.jpg

[Blacksun]

I'd rather be me...with all that that entails. Depression, mood swings, just the plain grumps, or riding high. It all is me.. and the totality of the highs, lows and middles influence my creativity. Me, when I'm really in the dumps, I like to go to my Church and sit quietly in the balcony of the Sanctuary, say a prayer, and read a bit from the pew Bible. It helps me. Add the medication and I seem to do just find...still have extreme highs, but the lows don't seem to be as low.... Hope you feel better soon.

[Landseer]

I just don't believe that manic-depression caused you to helplessly alienate all those people and burn all those bridges, or to respond in this way to my post.Bi-polarism DOES this, as do a few other disorders, not only does the condition cause this but the medications all have their own set of sideweffects- including moods swings, halicinations and suicidal tendencies. The affected person does not think about what happen ten minutes from now if they do "x" (like curse everyone here out) they just react, it is also a hallmark of some of the anti social and avoidant personality disorders to constantly "test" friends, family and other people to see who is really a friend and who isn't. It can be aggrivating as hell for those involved who have a friend or someone with this as many things the affected person says and does may make no sense.

This forum isn't a mental health, sexuality, child care or gaming community- it's a sculpture and art community and as such probably very few here know anything about these disorders or how to deal with them, but I will say that the worst way to respond is with "buck up" or sarcastic type comments, best way is either be supportive in the context of this community- making and selling sculpture and art by those who have physical, emotional, financial or mental disabilities- or just skip the post /thread by entirely.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Bipolar Disorder Triggers Severe Mood Swings

(HealthDay News) -- Bipolar disorder , sometimes called manic depression, is characterized by mood swings so severe that a person's relationships, occupation, and overall ability to function can be severely compromised.
The U.S. National Institute of Mental Health says symptoms typically include episodes of extreme euphoria, followed by episodes of extreme sadness, depression or anger -- but often with temperate periods in between. Other signs of bipolar disorder include insomnia or sleeping too much, drastic weight loss or gain, difficulty concentrating, anxiousness, and thoughts of suicide.
The disorder usually can be controlled with prescription medications -- frequently lithium -- that minimize the emotional swings. Treatments are most effective if they are taken continuously, not intermittently, the NIMH says
http://images.medicinenet.com/images/clearpixel.gifhttp://images.medicinenet.com/images/clearpixel.gif

[anatomist1]

Sorry, Landseer, I still don't buy the helpless victimology. Nothing in your citation or any other I have read contradicts what I said above. This disorder can cause moods, urges, and tendencies, but it does not take away a person's freedom of choice, or responsibility for their own behavior - particularly someone who is aware they have the disease and has access to treatment. I haven't had bipolar, but I have been severely depressed and I have been mighty screwed up on intoxicants, up to and including blackouts and complete loss of sense of self. Nobody ever made me do anything, and I never helplessly blamed my behavior on mental illness or drugs.

I understand that this fellow has some serious disadvantages, but it is abundantly clear that his major problem vis-a-vis his inability to get along here (and probably, by extension, the art world) has to do with a lack of social skills... particularly an unwillingness to listen to others or consider their viewpoints. I simply don't believe that he is biologically incapable of being more socially ept. However, a rigid belief in the paradigm of victimhood that you are endorsing sounds like a nearly insurmountable obstacle. There is no way to accomplish something if you don't believe you can and don't try.

[Landseer]

Sorry, Landseer, I still don't buy the helpless victimology. Nothing in your citation or any other I have read contradicts what I said above. This disorder can cause moods, urges, and tendencies, but it does not take away a person's freedom of choice, or responsibility for their own behavior - particularly someone who is aware they have the disease and has access to treatment. What you need to keep in mind are a couple of things, one is in this anonymous text environment there are considerable limitations and the only thing we have to go on is what Oscar posted, and what he posted is based on his own thoughts and feelings about himself and his situation- in other words what he posted may in fact BE his self perceived "reality" which may be true and correct TO him even if for example- a psychiatrist who knows his case personally describes a different story as an outsider looking in.
Oscar may FEEL he is a victim, and is one due to what he may feel are minor events, a psychiatrist looking from the outside in may say that things he does MAKES him a victim because these events are far more serious or offensive to other people.


I understand that this fellow has some serious disadvantages, but it is abundantly clear that his major problem vis-a-vis his inability to get along here (and probably, by extension, the art world) has to do with a lack of social skills... particularly an unwillingness to listen to others or consider their viewpoints. Probably right there- most strangers, gallery owners etc are not going to put up with crap from other people for long- we all have busy lives, work, bills to pay etc., when a stranger calls your number and it's the wrong number and they hang up you get annoyed, but if this happens a dozen times one day from the same guy who cant seem to dial the right number you get REALLY annoyed at having to deal wth someone elses' problem you don't even know, but if it's your 90 year old mom with alzheimers doing this the picture changes based on the relationship v/s no relationship doesn't it?
So someone with a "problem" is going to be an annoyance to someone like gallery owners and strangers and they dont usually care about the WHY there's a problem.

It may be entirely correct for me to assume Oscar may have MORE than just the bi-polar and there are some social disorders that cause a grandios attitude- Narcisism comes to mind, read this and the remember the earlier posts from Oscar;

1. Excessive love or admiration of oneself
2. A psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem.
4. The attribute of the human psyche charactized by admiration of oneself but within normal limits.
attempting to get personal recognition for yourself (especially by unacceptable means)

So while I'm not excusing anything, nor saying this is the diagnosis, I just mention these issues to consider for some explanation and suggesting replies might be best served towards answering just the original questions- advice on HOW to sell his work to galleries, gain more recognition etc etc or not reply at all rather than responding to the unrelated non sculpture mental health issues.
None of us are psychiatrists and we may not know the WHOLE story- Oscar might not even know himself, so I think we should just keep to replying to the sculpture aspects instead of the other issues.




a rigid belief in the paradigm of victimhood that you are endorsing sounds like a nearly insurmountable obstacle. There is no way to accomplish something if you don't believe you can and don't try. I am not endorsing victimhood, only providing information on possible explanations, reasons and causes.

I knew a fellow online who had this disorder and I knew his girlfriend as well, he not only had cycles but he gradually became worse and worse- to the point where he threatened the girlfriend to the point where she broke off their engagement and called the police and emailed me about the situation. Then out of the blue he threatened ME when for some reason he thought I was "after" "his" girl he hoped to soon marry- and warned then ordered me to "back off", I had no idea what that was about, I had only emailed with the lady and had absolutely no interest in her whatsoever.

He was using his position at an ISP to send threats via email to a number of different people including the girl, and was fired. Not long after that he set fire to his apartment after threatening to blow it up and was arrested (evicted, and lost everything he owned including his cat when the stuff was thrown out while he was in jail)
The trigger for that seemed to be his irrational behavior/paranoia leading to his fiance leaving him, and that was THE big event that started the downhill blowup. When he was in good form he was good, rational etc, but when he cycled and the paranoia started- watch out!

So I do have some experience with this!
I also had an adoptive mother who was disagnosed schitzophrenic and was like Jeckle and Hyde. When she was ok she baked pies and cakes, cleaned the apartment etc., got me up for school, cooked breakfast etc., when she had a cycle she would break furniture, dishes, cut the toes off my dad's socks and roll them back in the drawer, dumps the cat's litter box on his side of the bed while he was at work, pull the covers over and go to bed, call my dad at work every 5 minutes to argue, break his glasses, dump his brief case in the bathtub etc.

One cycle she had when I was about 12- she smashed an entire glass display case full of her antique wedgewood china collection, it made so much noise the neighbors called the police.
She took her medications- Darvon, Demerol for migraines and went to bed, 20 or so hours later she woke up and had absolutely NO recollection of the china carnage- which by that time my dad had cleaned up- she demanded to know who SOLD her china and accused my dad of selling her china and the display case, and that started a new round of fights.
Around that time she was put in Bellevue that summer after she tried to kill me with sleeping pills, but was on her very best behavior there, told the docs what they wanted to hear and was released.

So I have seen the bizarre behavior and mood changes up close and personal and can tell you the person isn't always aware of what they are doing- she was proof positive of THAT!

[Scout]

I guess he's not coming back? Scout

[anatomist1]

I can believe that some people have such disturbed brain chemistry that they don't even know what they are doing, much less have the means to make changes. I guess for me, the more complex the behavior, the less likely I am to accept this kind of explanation/excuse though. Smashing a china cabinet in a rage is a much simpler behavior than displaying a particular pattern of response when talking on a message board, or being abrasive when approaching a gallery about showing your work, for instance. The former is much more conducive to an explanation of unreasonable compulsion.

I don't place that much stock in the fact that something has a psychological or psychiatric classification, diagnosis, and treatment pattern. Psychology is a fairly primitive science. It has only been within the last 30 years or so that they actually started applying controlled experiments to therapies to even find out which ones worked. They don't really know that much about what differentiates someone, say, with antisocial tendencies who keeps them under control without therapy and someone who has a diagnosed antisocial personality disorder. It may eventually be proven that it is pure brain chemistry, but it may also be that the former person is merely less stubborn and more willing to adapt and change.
I come down, by default, on the side that there is always something more I can do or try to address my own problems. This means over and above blame, even in cases where it seems clearly 'someone else's fault'. I've seen too many people with stubborn, defeatist attitudes hurt themselves and others, and waste their lives dwelling on how unfair things are, or how it's all beyond their control and there is nothing they can do.

I think there is some kind of lesson to learn from almost any experience, and some kind of adaptation that one can make to improve one's odds in the future. Aside from that last one-liner, my responses to Oscar were about his issue with sculpture. It's clear to me that he needs to start thinking outside the box and improving his social skills if he wants to get ahead with people in the art world, whatever this involves. His condition may prohibit him from ever being the "life of the party" or going into business as a conflict mediator or diplomat, but I have no doubt that he can learn to improve his social skills radically over what we've seen here. It's also clear to me that stubbornness and attitude are as much or more of the problem than his brain chemistry.

[oscar]

ATONOMIST

you must be a 14 yr. old idiot

[obseq]

Oscar,

Insults are not tolerated on the forum. People participating in your thread have been patient with you and willing to discuss the topic at hand.

It is expected that you show the same respect that you have been shown.

[oscar]

erase the whole thread!
most of you are idiots!

[Scout]

We all start out as idiots but some of us learn how to learn new things and modify ourselves. I feel so small in this world, especially in the world of sculptors here. How can one not revel in all this information?

I have a relative with this attitude problem. Very difficult to deal with. He thinks it's a virtue. Always has to be in conflict with the family or at work or like on this forum. Always funnelling all information through the "attitude meter" that can turn anything you say into something negative and meant to harm them purposefully. Also knows he'll be rich and famous but doesn't work at it. Figures the lottery is their ticket. Burns all bridges and when their funk is over, they blow it off and act like nothing happened. Infuriating to say the least!! Never staying to complete a battle they started, just run away, just erase everything, or stir up more unbelieveable responses to sting you and then RUN! Stop running. Stand and deliver....that's what people respond to. Scout

[Studioinde]

and you are wasting our time, Oscar............seek help (for your own sake).
Regards,
Studioinde

[oscar]

You all can only dream of the talent I have!
I'm fine! Slump's over.

[MountainSong]

Wanna’ show us some pics of all that talent?

[Landseer]

This is a complex area anatomist, there are of course degrees of afliction as well as overlapping diseases, and individual variations, but one thing is certain- we should NOT have to sit here and be subjected to outbursts, insults etc

I don't place that much stock in the fact that something has a psychological or psychiatric classification, diagnosis, and treatment pattern. Psychology is a fairly primitive science. It has only been within the last 30 years or so that they actually started applying controlled experiments to therapies to even find out which ones worked. They don't really know that much about what differentiates someone, say, with antisocial tendencies who keeps them under control without therapy and someone who has a diagnosed antisocial personality disorder.
Remember though many of these things have overlapping criteria and symptoms and probably everyone meets at least a few of the criteria for most of them, the diagnosis is confirmed when the patient meets all or most of the criteria. In my case I think it was all but one criteria for the avoidant personality disorder, (APD) at least in a mild degree of it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder

Fits me to a tee, but there are degrees of course and I am sure there are some who are affected to a degree they can't even leave the house, I do leave the house go to work etc but I DONT go to parties, date, social functions, I dont "visit" people, call to just say "hi", I don't like shopping in a store by myself when I'm the only one there and the sales clerk is watching, or having sales clerks help, I never ask for help- prefer doing everything myself, doctor, dentist, barber visits are a real chore.

defeatist attitudes hurt themselves and others, and waste their lives dwelling on how unfair things are, or how it's all beyond their control and there is nothing they can do.
People have to learn that for the most part the rest of society doesnt give a crap about "you", and that the only one who is going to look out for "you" is YOU, not the guy next door, not the welfare dept and not the local supermarket, get off their ass and do something about their problems.
I've had periods in the past where I was low, WAY low, rock bottom, but I got up off my ass and did something about it cause I knew sure as hell no one was going to do it FOR me.

A big part of one problem was my dad bless his heart- both shielded me and showed his love with money and stuff, as a result he was still buying all of my clothes for me up to the week he died- I never had to shop for pants and socks till I was almost 40, if I was short of money dad was there with an open wallet, anything I wanted or wanted to do he was there with an open wallet and support. Bully at school? just have dad deal with it, wanted to buy something but felt apprehensive approaching the situation or person- dad was there to do the deal FOR me.
So in many ways this was nice but in others it made the APD worse by re-inforcing it early on and enabling avoiding situations, people and so on.
So when he died 7 years ago it was a major change, no more envelopes with a note and a $20 bill stuck in it, no more packages full of clothes, but I dealt with it.


I think there is some kind of lesson to learn from almost any experience, and some kind of adaptation that one can make to improve one's odds in the future. Aside from that last one-liner, my responses to Oscar were about his issue with sculpture. It's clear to me that he needs to start thinking outside the box and improving his social skills if he wants to get ahead with people in the art world, whatever this involves. His condition may prohibit him from ever being the "life of the party" or going into business as a conflict mediator or diplomat, but I have no doubt that he can learn to improve his social skills radically over what we've seen here. It's also clear to me that stubbornness and attitude are as much or more of the problem than his brain chemistry. After reading his recent posts I have to agree, I don't see an effort OR a cry for help, I'm seeing us all subjected now to "you are all idiots" and all I can say now is we all have our problems, I have my own and I lead a really busy life, 45 hour work week, my sideline sculptures, orders to fill, stuff to pack up and ship as I'm sure you and most everyone else here does, so I'm going to bow out of this with no regrets for my comments/suggestions as they are valid ones, but it's clear now that our colleague "Oscar" has some kind of agenda that isn't about getting help or isnt about humbly accepting OUR advice/suggestions.

[Berinje']

Bipolar Disorder is a serious illness. It shouldn't be taken lightly. Oscar, I hope you are on medication for the illness and that you stay on it. The manic characteristics of Bipolar Disorder of grandiosity, fantasy thinking, unrealistic expectations, risky behavior and aggressiveness can be difficult for people to deal with, even if you feel like you are flying high during the manic phase. There is a price to pay for this manic high because of the loss of friends and family, as I'm sure you are well aware. Medication can help you to balance out and start over. I wish you much luck with this difficult illness. Please stay in touch so that we know you are okay.

[oscar]

The medications are designed to eradicate irrational thought, ie, dispose of the mania. Creativity is irrational thought. Hence, creativity is destroyed!

Go suck on that one y'all.

[fused]

"You all can only dream of the talent I have!" explains oscar.

Art is life, and life is but a dream.
Normal is an illusion on par with the American Dream.
Art is not irrational thought, becoming an artist might be
but the jury is still out on that one.

That's the way the bee bumbles,
that's the way the cookie crumbles.

[mark pilato]

Oscar,
That sucks, so have you found the medication in your work? Life's hard and when it comes to illness well sometimes it's a living hell. The thing about it is that when a person is so caught up in an illness sometimes its hard to see the light. The dark can be so enticing wile the world around you spins out of control.Then despair, anxiety and the grey of it all fills you up- then something holds you down touching and caresssing all the right places. baiting you telling you its all right until the life is drawn out of you, until there is just one more breath then like a friend it rocks you back. Some say you need meds and that it's the only way. Maybe they are right, Maybe, but I say sculpt away the dark. Stand strong and when that bastard comes knocking on your door. Say no fucking way and sculpt, sculpt sculpt. I think that for some people medicine is the only way, but I also feel that some people can figure it out without the meds. I know I would try, try try until I knew there was no other possible way. Good luck and
all the best ,
Mark

[Scout]

Would VanGoug have been as great if he had been medicated? Maybe not but, remember, he killed himself. SQ

[mark pilato]

Good point, Scout, but VanGoug also lives forever in his art. I think that drugs are not always the way, but sometimes they are the only way. It takes a doctor, a good doctor to point this out. Im not ether just an artist trying to help. I have helped a lot of people when it comes to the process of art, finding what lives deep inside and bringing it out. Heres some medicine for some of you,and the cost for this drug - almost free. First you will need two pieces of scap paper about 3 feet by five feet - maybe a buck. Then a box of crayons - a buck fifty maybe, some pencils which you have, pens whatever you like. Now you have your drug, time for the fix. Put the paper up on opposite walls facing each other. Then every morning for ten minutes draw, scribble, scream, let it all out -cry if you have to. On one of the pieces of paper draw all that you hate. The other all you love. Use words numbers what ever you want, draw in the moment with no fear of doing it wrong, if it looks like shit who cares the porpose is not whats on the paper but what you are letting out.. at the end of every day after work before bed go back to them and again work for ten minutes no longer. Heres the best part when you are done every day throw all you hate away. Then the next morning start again the same way putting up a new piece of paper for Hate and if you need to, put a new one up beside Love. In a week your work will sing and who knows what you will find, maybe you will find something that you can share with us all showing us the light. trust me on this it may seem silly but its only one week. Go for it - try it out - It could be the drug for you. my e-mail is sculpting2000@catskill.net if anyone out there wants to give it a try and wants to share. Again sorry for spelling.
All the best,
Mark

[Landseer]

"You all can only dream of the talent I have!"
I think this whole thing was nothing more than a troll or joke just designed to provoke a reaction from people here, and a reaction he did get!

He still logs in but hasn't posted anything till yesterday, and the one post made was totally edited out blank- again, so one can probably guess what the content was, most likely something requiring a moderator to remove or the account locked up.

Sympathy and help is good at times, but there comes a point when you just have to cut the person loose and let them go on their way. People have extended both sympathy and help as well as scorn and sarcasm and nothing changed with either approach.

[Merlion]

erase the whole thread!
most of you are idiots!

He has already said it. Let him dream on. And lets get back to work.

[Landseer]

He has already said it. Let him dream on. And lets get back to work.But Merlion I can't resist; "You all can only dream of the talent I have!"

LOL that's funny :)


I see light!!!! I see the light!!!! it's a miracle!!!!

er....
oops....

Sorry, I got carried away, it was a cars' headlight coming up the road :(

[anatomist1]

Well it is true that those with manic-depression have the highest amount of creativity.

This is nothing but a bald assertion. Care to back it up with any factual citations or even a halfway plausible explanation of why this claim is supposed to be true? What definition of creativity are you using?


The average and normal people are surely the ones reacting strongly to this poll.

Combined with the above, this amounts to a double fallacy - "begging the question", as well as "circumstantial ad hominem". Being against what you assumed above invalidates one's opinion and confirms the assumption. Not very convincing.

I feel I must also point out the high irony that you are using fallacy-ridden arguments that would only convince someone of below average or normal intelligence...

[Berinje']

If you do a little research you will find that along with all the negative and out-of-control characteristics of Bipolar Disorder, is also the characteristic of above average intelligence and creativity, but also a very high suicide rate. One of the problems of this mental illness though, is that the irrational side makes it very difficult to achieve success in one's life. I don't have the illness but knew someone who did and he didn't keep it in check with medication. He was impossible to work with and with his grandiosity and fantasy thinking running-a-muck he continued to sabotage any creativity, business or relationship he had. And this illness gets worse over time if not treated. I'm not at all one for medicating things, but Bipolar Disorder is catergoized as an axis one psychotic mental illness along with schizophrenia. So it is serious and medication and psychothery is really needed to control delusions, even if it slightly blunts one's emotions it would be worth it. Again, I hope that Oscar seeks professional help so that he can express his creativity in a meaningful way and develop a life with people in it who want to love him.

[fused]

Do a little more research and you will find that generalizations --much like stereotypes-- are not absolutes and have as many variables as anyone or everything else in the world.

The shoe fits where it fits and one size does not fit all.

[Landseer]

Well it is true that those with manic-depression have the highest amount of creativity. If Oscar can channel and utilize it then what he is saying, "You all can only dream of the talent I have", may well be valid.

He is obviously reluctant to expose himself on this front by showing his work, thus identity. There is still quite a stigma surrounding this.

The average and normal people are surely the ones reacting strongly to this poll.Well my thought on this is, we all tried in various ways, but when someone comes in and starts a thread with the tone this had and announces in the first post, making a point of it in fact- "I'm manic" or whatever is asking for negative feedback. Some of us tried and you can see than in the first page, some content was removed and I know I invited the chap to a forum *FOR* health, mental health and sexuality issues/support that I own, he never showed up or even responded.
Instead we were subjected to comments like this and worse;

erase the whole thread!
most of you are idiots!

That doesn't win friends in any place. At first I was sympathetic but then Anatomist pointed out a few things and I started to see he was right.
We had someone like this on the woodworking forum I gused to go to, posting about his "Grand Armoire" he claimed he built all by himself in his garage with just an old broken down looking Craftsman table saw and a hand saw- he posted photos of "his" Armoire and his "shop" tools and made glowing remarks about how he had NO training but built this huge piece of furniture with carvings on it, glass doors etc with just an old table saw etc etc
People doubted him, and then someone recognized the armoire from one in an ad being sold at a commercial furniture store and called him on it.
He insisted depite all the proof- that he made this armoire and that we all were stupid etc.
We figured he grabbed a couple of photos off the web or scanned them, and claimed they were his tools and his armoire (never showed ANY construction photos or sketches) but unfortunately for him someone recognized the furniture as a commercially made piece.

Forums are full of that kind of troll- grab a couple of photos off the web, claim they made such and such, sit back and watch the fun. I have little doubt "Oscar" is in this category laughing while people come in defense of his "manic" he likely never had.

If someone came in and immediately announced "Hi, I'm Joe and I'm a convicted murderer and rapist and lately I feel the urge again" is this the forum for that or is it a SCULPTURE forum?

In either case there are hundreds of forums and resources on the web for every imaginable affliction, fetish and desire, this isn't a mental help forum it's a professional sculpture forum.

That doesn't mean we should ignore something such as one of our colleagues here sometime along announces; "I'm getting a divorce, I have cancer, my dog died and I'm depressed, my son was killed, I lost my job, my alcoholism is getting worse" etc that we ignore that and tell them to go to another forum because we only deal with sculpture here, but theres a place and a time for everything that is usually more appropriate to the situation at hand.

Probably none of us here are licensed doctors, therapists or psychiatrists, we can support but steer someone like this to a more appropriate resource where the problem or issue will get valid HELP, while not subjecting all of us here to comments like: "You all are idiots!" or "Up your ass!"
At least that's my view on the matter.

[Landseer]

The guy is a sculptor.
Correction: claims to be, but has not provided even ONE photo.

Getting along well with others is really not a trait of manic-depression. Sure he told you all to get lost. But you know what? You didn't get lost! There is still some compassion for him.
As the owner of a health, MENTAL HEALTH and human sexuality site with message board, and former moderator of a similar site with 5,000 users I have dealt with many manic and depressed people, none that I can recall started out like Oscar and then slammed everyone there, what does that tell you? They may curse, ramble, get hostile but then quickly cycle, come back, apologize etc.

He said "get lost" "you all are idiots" etc., so we got lost and moved on. Most of us have jobs, family, pets, bills to pay, groceries to buy, laundry to wash and houses/studios to clean- with very little time left to play mind games with obvious forum trolls. It's not about Oscar, the thread has moved on.


Obviously he reached out for some opinions. I think he is in the midst of It seems more obvious now the whole thing was a joke from the start- designed to provoke a reaction, sit back, laugh and watch the entertaining "show" here of people arguing over his alleged "manic." I'm sorry, but manic or not does not excuse coming into a professional forum like this and immediately attacking the people here.


Oscar's poll should be read deeper. It should be deleted and removed, in fact like he asked for and then we should move on. If he truly needs help then why don't YOU email him from his profile, give him your email address or phone and get him some professional help, then when he is all fine he can come back here- assuming he really IS involved with sculpture at all, and start anew.

I posted a thread relating to the images at the top of this board. I wanted some change for I really don't see anything up there that has any reach! Most of what I see and what I've heard from all of you, is comfort. Yes, good post, but now that the answer to that was posted and the reasons for those images and how they got there is clearer.

Oscar, clearly, is not comfortable. Struggle and sacrifice is not for all. I commend one who has the ability to survive such immeasurable odds!

Try to find that middle ground Oscar! We love you! Your creativity will inspire generations! Oh please! he hasn't posted one image yet you seem to know a whole lot about him, I am wondering now after reading this post if you aren't just his alter-ego with a second account having more entertainment sticking up for "him" (yourself) your ip and his would display here to the moderators- they can tell easy enough if two accounts are accessed by the same ISP.

Believe me, as the owner of domains and boards like this one, and the admin for a radio talk show host's site, chatroom and boards I've seen all the little forum spam/sham/basher and troll tricks- including multiple accounts, anonymous proxy and so on- very little to none of that stuff gets past ME.

[mark pilato]

Landseer, Okay, But Oscar real or unreal stirred something up, maybe alot of people out there have the same problem he is describing. Yea he is probably full of it, but at the same time people are into this thread, it triggers something. When I started on it, Oscar became many people I know with the same problem he discribed, When I wrote to him I saw their faces. I think you are probably right and people are more or less trying to figure something out in themselves on this one. So i say cool, let it out and who cares if he is or is not a fake.
All the best,
Mark
pilatostudios.com

[Landseer]

Landseer, Okay, But Oscar real or unreal stirred something up, maybe alot of people out there have the same problem he is describing. Yea he is probably full of it, but at the same time people are into this thread, it triggers something. When I started on it, Oscar became many people I know with the same problem he discribed, When I wrote to him I saw their faces. I think you are probably right and people are more or less trying to figure something out in themselves on this one. So i say cool, let it out and who cares if he is or is not a fake.
All the best,
Mark
pilatostudios.comYes, read back where I said this; "It's not about Oscar, the thread has moved on."
We all have problems and "Oscar" has now become many facets of various illnesses and problems, nothing wrong with discussing the issues, I'm game- but it sure would be more helpful to do that rather than continue discussing "Oscar" specifically, and his posts.

I've chalked him up as a troll, case closed!

Now, if we want to discuss sculpture, creativity, getting work done, dealing with the public and clients, and dealing with various issues like bi-polarism, depression etc- in that context- that's fine with me though it's no longer a "poll" here and maybe we should migrate to the folder for offtopic and everything else issues?

[terracotta]

Here's a really talented inspiring and succesful bipolar artist http://tonyakay.com/

On her site in her journal for 13 July 06 she says

Oh, my god. I just realized that my cycles are becoming predictable. They aren't happening to me. They are directly proportional to my mania highs. Oh, god, I'm just better at it now. Well, I better keep getting better because here we go again.
Manic depression. I spend most of my life, after accepting there is such a thing as Manic Depression, denying its existence. But right now I can not deny that I am strongly exhibiting the bahavior that connects myself to many others based on a set of predictable symptoms when under stress. We powerful, emotional, creative outsiders.