Modeler or carver - which are you?

[HorseModels]

I am sure that most people who answer this poll will say that they are both. I know I am, but if you had to choose one or the other for a profession, which would you feel more comfortable doing? I believe I would have to say I would be a modeler, because it is easier for me to envision something from nothing than see it within a solid object trying to get out. Also, if I carve away too much and it compromizes the integrity of the piece, I'm not sure that I could recover the original intent of the sculpture if I had to change it, due to careless carving. :D

[ironman]

Hi, I make non-obj welded steel sculptures, so I'm a constructor. I build up rather than carve, which is a taking away process. Two completely different ways of working, building up and taking away!
I do play with clay (modeler) and in fact am working on a figurative torso right now.
I have a few 400 lb. blocks of marble sitting outside my studio but they've been there for 4 years and since I really don''t like carving, they might be there for another 4.
Have a great day,
Jeff

[HorseModels]

Hi, I make non-obj welded steel sculptures, so I'm a constructor. I build up rather than carve, which is a taking away process. Two completely different ways of working, building up and taking away!
I do play with clay (modeler) and in fact am working on a figurative torso right now.
I have a few 400 lb. blocks of marble sitting outside my studio but they've been there for 4 years and since I really don''t like carving, they might be there for another 4.
Have a great day,
Jeff

I hear you! I do carve on my sculptures to get the intricate details, but I much prefer to build up. Maybe that is why I like to do construction in my spare time. To me, there is a sense of satisfaction when you can build something with your own two hands that other people can enjoy too. Do you have a website so I can see what you build? I'd love to see what you weld up. Good luck with your torso and those 400 lb blocks of marble. Maybe if the blocks are still in the same shape four years from now, you might want to consider turning them into bases. I do use marble for my bronze bases and even though they add considerably to the weight, they are a beautiful accent. They make good doorstops, too! :D

[G. Murdoch]

Hi Debbi,

Stone carver all the way.

Graham

[Thatch]

Started modeling clay, then constructing steel, modeled wax for a few bronzes and went through the complete process including pouring, back to welding and years later I carve. I like carving the best even though I screw up on a regular basis. I am constantly getting better at it and what I like the most about carving is creating form as I go. Getting started with no idea is the hard part. Once I get going I love the process. It is kind of silly but what really floats my boat is doing convex sides in a concave form that leads to negative space.

Debbi,
I didn't get all the way through your site yet but want to say that the filly is vibrant. Looks like it has a pulse.

Thatch

[HorseModels]

Started modeling clay, then constructing steel, modeled wax for a few bronzes and went through the complete process including pouring, back to welding and years later I carve. I like carving the best even though I screw up on a regular basis. I am constantly getting better at it and what I like the most about carving is creating form as I go. Getting started with no idea is the hard part. Once I get going I love the process. It is kind of silly but what really floats my boat is doing convex sides in a concave form that leads to negative space.

Debbi,
I didn't get all the way through your site yet but want to say that the filly is vibrant. Looks like it has a pulse.

Thatch

I know what you mean about the negative spaces. I struggle with them all the time, especially on the undersides of my horses tails. When done right, though, it is a great feeling and sense of accomplishment. I wish that I could carve better. I have to engrave all the hair texture in my models which makes me start seeing cross-eyed by the end of the day! :D That filly took me four days to engrave all her hair texture. If I could have modeled it instead of carving it, I would have!

I was just taking a break from cleaning up the fillies. I just introduced her a few days ago and have started cleaning up the ones already spoken for. I don't even have one painted up yet. Painting them brings out the life in them. I don't have the patience for painting, just sculpting. I let other talented artists do that part and we split the profits 50/50.

[HorseModels]

Hi Debbi,

Stone carver all the way.

Graham

Hello Graham,

You have a talent, indeed! I don't think I could carve stone if my life depended on it. What kind of subject matter do you use for inspiration in carving? Do you have a website that showcases your work?

[G. Murdoch]

Hi Debbi,

For the first 6 years or so I carved the human figure exclusively, then I was introduced to the creative possibilities of non-representational sculpture. Where does inspiration come from? Both talent and inspiration are gifts from God. I am resposinble for the courage, discipline and effort.

Love your work.

Graham

[HorseModels]

Hi Debbi,

For the first 6 years or so I carved the human figure exclusively, then I was introduced to the creative possibilities of non-representational sculpture. Where does inspiration come from? Both talent and inspiration are gifts from God. I am resposinble for the courage, discipline and effort.

Love your work.

Graham

Thanks, Graham!

Yes, I too believe that to be able to create is a gift from God. I also believe it is about as close as we can feel to our creater when we too create. I am blessed to have better than average eye/hand coordination which also aids in sculpting.

I believe I was looking at one of your human figures in bronze in the gallery and it was awesome! I hope to be able to do even a fraction of that good with my mermaid. You are obviously blessed yourself!

[Darkcloud]

Hi Deb... modeler... I suck at carving... 'have great respect to all those who carve... Eric

[Blacksun]

Stone Carver by preference...nothing feels better than that first clean solid bite of a chisel in a new piece of stone. Modeler when required....

[desertrock]

Carver.
Because I don't have the facility for large blocks of stone, I often will start working with the stone and retain some existing lines or curves that I invision as part of the overall complete form. The largest stone I start with is around 200-250 pounds ending at about 75-100 pounds. Some stones may be reduced by only 10% not counting a cutout (hole).
When I pick my stone in boulder form, I look for good inherent form and semetry to start with if it's evident.
If you held a gun to my head and said carve a duplicate from a model, I'd take the gun away and blow my brains out. I haven't tried it actually. I have done carvings from my own drawings without exacting deminsions with relative success. I want the modeling skills though.
I work with what I have to, given my limitations in weight handling.
I'd give a berry for a nice crane or beam hoist and a large diamond chop saw with about a 24" cut depth. Then a couple of helpers to sand and polish etc. etc. etc.
Done rambling.

Mark

[HorseModels]

Carver.
Because I don't have the facility for large blocks of stone, I often will start working with the stone and retain some existing lines or curves that I invision as part of the overall complete form. The largest stone I start with is around 200-250 pounds ending at about 75-100 pounds. Some stones may be reduced by only 10% not counting a cutout (hole).
When I pick my stone in boulder form, I look for good inherent form and semetry to start with if it's evident.
If you held a gun to my head and said carve a duplicate from a model, I'd take the gun away and blow my brains out. I haven't tried it actually. I have done carvings from my own drawings without exacting deminsions with relative success. I want the modeling skills though.
I work with what I have to, given my limitations in weight handling.
I'd give a berry for a nice crane or beam hoist and a large diamond chop saw with about a 24" cut depth. Then a couple of helpers to sand and polish etc. etc. etc.
Done rambling.

Mark

I admire anyone who has the tenacity to carve, especially in stone. I really appreciate when stone is polished and smoothed out, how beautiful the sculptures are. I hear you, Mark, when it comes to struggling with large sculptures. I have been working on my lifesize mermaid lately, and have to bend way over to work on her face (she is on a banquet table, 30" off the floor). I found myself having to straddle her lower torso, just to be able to work on some difficult areas. I find it difficult to get the proper perspective, if I can't position myself to even look at it from the correct angle. :)

[Julianna]

Hi Deb... modeler... I suck at carving... 'have great respect to all those who carve... Eric

I'm a carver. I suck at modeling and have respect to all those who model!

[Darkcloud]

Hi Jul... I also suck at welding... almost got myself killed trying to learn how to weld... so hats off to welders... or constructors as Jeff puts it... Eric

[Daytripper]

I guess I fall into both the constructivist and carver camps. I fabricate and construct with steel, and carve stone. Two widely divergent processes, one an additive, the other a subtractive process. It challenges me especially on the carving process. I try to incorporate the shape of the stone and sort of allow it to speak to me before I start to carve. Sometimes it takes awhile for that to happen. I try not to force my will in shaping stone to any preconceived ideas, if possible.

I usually work from drawings or sketches rather than winging it. My work tends to be non-objective or abstract as opposed to realism...

[Cantab]

I like taking a blank piece of stone and cutting it into a form. Building up to a form is less interesting for me. I have to admit I also like the damage of cutting away stone - I like the pointing and the angle grinding!

[alisha]

I'm definately a carver (and constructor). I found out in art school during a required figure modeling class. Ms. Scary Pants would always yell at me because I would stick on huge chunks of clay and then carve them off. She would catch me doing it from across the room. My punishment was her taking away all my tools, and giving me the lovely nickname of Bacon, for Francis Bacon, because my figures were so distorted. They would have been fine if she would have just let me carve.
ahhhhhhh, art school.

[circeart]

I'm both too. Started out many years ago as a wood carver. Moved into plastalina clay and got into the animal figurine business (modeler). Hundreds of sculptures later, I'm working in ceramic clay as well as modeling clay and there's so much more freedom in the modeling clay. I miss the old days of my woodcarving past, but am much better as a modeler.
-Circe

[Tired Iron]

I started carving wood as a 14 year old that had a leg in a cast and found the time to sit still and do something I always wanted to do. After the cast came off I never went back to carving wood. ( Although I may start again real soon as the temp out in my shop area (welding shop not hair shop!) is hard to keep warm at sub zero temps outside!) How I wish I'd gone south this year!! As A 19 year old I went into the hair business. There you ad and subtract to change a form or shape. Truly a training period for over 30 years. I had to envision a finished "sculpture" many times a day. Now I construct forms from pieces of old metal objects. The pieces themselves seem to dictate what they will eventually become a part of. I get to choose the pieces that fit in to finish the idea that pops into mind from the first inspirational piece. (Whew, long sentences). I've been told more than once that some of my sculptures resemble line drawings and that I use negative space quite a bit...I am just having fun!

[weseye]

I can carve/sculpt when I need to. I had a furniture refinishing/restoration business for 25 years and sometimes I had to make missing parts for chairs, tables, etc.

But I prefer to assemble, build stuff or construct. I can take 2D images (drawings, sketches) and make them 3D. I like to make contemporary sculptures. I make representational abstracts and non-objective abstracts. I could make big sculptures, but due to the expense of materials and my health conditions preventing me from lifting heavy stuff; I work with lighter materials. I recycle junk; I make stuff from new material and sometimes combine both.

I attached an image of a sculpture that I made in the summer of 2005 using junk and new materials. The story behind the sculpture is: I was sitting my porch observing my cucumbers growing on a trellis. I had an image imbedded in my brain and then I went out into the workshop and 2 hours later had this made.

The stem is brazed braided copper wire. The leaves are cut from soup/vegetable cans using a welding tip. The glass berries are clear glass globs (flat marbles used for decorating), heated and fused to copper wire stems. I curled 20 gauge copper wire for the tendrils. When completely assembled I lightly colored the leaves with green spray paint and clear coated the whole sculpture front and back with clear acrylic.

The next one will be made from copper foil for the leaves and I will eliminate the glass globs and use something else. (The glass makes them somewhat fragile cause they don’t pass drop checks. The steel will rust eventually.)

Keep Arting!
Jeff (weseye) Wesley

[GlennT]

I model, I carve, I paint, I draw...in short, I use whatever technique and medium is best suited to communicate the idea. I often find myself trying something for the first time, like when I was asked to carve a 10mm leaping stag directly in steel. I just work at it until I get it right, or as close to right as is humanly possible.

Given all the types of approaches I have experienced, I still enjoy modeling the figure in clay best of all. This is due to fluidity, ease of change, adaptablity to refinement, and how it can reach a point of " coming alive "

There is also something to be said for not having to wear all sorts of cumbersome protective gear and dealing with toxic dust or fumes while entering the Zen of creation.

GlennT

[JamesW]

Well neither really - I'm more a wrapper, stacker, painter, assembler, collector, photographer, binder kinda guy.

Happy Creating!
James

[sculptor]

Both

my first pieces were carved-----then i forsook the abstract for th figurative, and while learning the figure started modeling----------even when modeling, I push/slam/hammer/rub on the clay, then carve some of it off

best thing about modeling is that it is very forgiving of mistakes, and lends itself to changing plans in the middle of a piece
best thing about carving, is that when i'm done-----I'm really done--------no struggling with the damned molding process

rod

[colleensjeans]

This question is so funny because my husband and I we're talking about this last night! He asked me if he thought I should try carving (I am a sculpter right now). I just don't think I would be as good at it. Also, it seems more difficult to me to take away than to add on because a lot of times I have a general idea of what I am making, but most of the time, my gnome like creatures come alive on their own when sculpting. Does anyone think that taking a stab at carving might increase modeling talents or vice versa?

[circeart]

I find it alot more helpful (and easier) to work things out in clay before attempting to carve a piece of wood etc. If you make a small maquette even a roughed out form it helps. I don't know how learning to carve first would help in becoming a modeler, that's what I did. I think if anything, once I broke into sculpting in clay, I was able to work faster with alot more freedom. In the taking away or carving process, if you take too much away ex;(indecision, inexperience, or material flaws), you have to re-think the piece or start over. A modeler can just change or remove, then add more clay. On the other hand, if you become proficient in modeling, you may be able to tackel that piece of stone or wood with much more confidence, certainty and ease. :cool:

[dondougan]

I am a carver by nature — as an undergraduate learning the ropes I taught myself stone carving very easily (yeah, some banged thumbs and broken stones, but the process was a no-brainer), and while I could model for bronze casting I found it really hard to model things that meant anything. By that I mean I could copy what I saw in wax or clay, but (to borrow words of Brancusi) it was just beefsteak or meat without any accompanying conceptual basis.
After I left school I concentrated on stone, but then I started adding other materials to my carvings — becoming a constructivist. It began with adding forms in bronze to stone, and was soon followed by many other materials. In the last twenty years or so I have found that I must approach each material in it's own best manner. I model a lot differently now than I did back then — and I enjoy it a lot more — but the modelled elements never become finished pieces in their own right: they are just parts. After the modelling is done I usually either cast it in a hard material or fire it in the kiln . . . then I get out the carving and cutting tools and fit it to a larger concept (often stone) so the expressive gestural qualities gained in the modelling can play off the crisp edges and textured or polished surfaces of the stone.
Below are a few examples of constructed plus modelled & carved pieces, they are titled: Fishin' (Not So Deep) [blue earthenware & two pieces of burnished stoneware w/fishhook], Vonnegut's Garden [slate, marble, & glass w/squiggle of stoneware lower-right], and Childhood's Ghost [stoneware face on marble & limestone shelf].

[dondougan]

Sorry, I just realized I hadn't put any images of modeled bronze castings up like I meant to. The first — Digital Delectations — uses a modelled wax navel that was then cast in bronze. After casting, the bronze was further worked by grinding & sanding the edges of the top and sides square. These edges were smoothed and finished very crisply, while the modelled front and bottom surfaces were completely unchased — retaining the little surface bubbles that occurred during the investing process — because I thought those few bubbles added nicely to the texture I had worked in the wax originally. The horizontal strip was taken from a piece of clay drawn/scratched-upon and colored with slip and oxides before firing — the edge of the fired earthenware slab was then cut off with a diamond saw. The background is Indiana limestone upon which I applied wax and pigment prior to buffing.
The second piece, Green Lips Up, has an element first modelled in wax and then cast in bronze. The element was not modified after casting except for the patina and drilling/tapping the mounting holes on the reverse. It is fit onto the retained natural-surface of the fossiliferous sandstone along with a very hole-y piece of travertine.

To address the issue of whether carving or modelling will help or allow insight into the other process: YES — in the same way that knowing an antonym can help one understand the meaning of a specific word. Each approach will develop skills that will clarify and hone the skills used in the other process. But saying that does not mean one will be as 'easy' as the other — each of us have devloped or are born-with certain innate pathways of perception (i.e.; in a nature vs. nurture sense), and traveling those pathways will always lead us to make choices based on what works best (learned from past experience).
Though I have learned to model much better than I did thirty years ago, I still want to come back and carve the 'modelled' form after it has been transformed into something less malleable. But I never - EVER - make a model of anything I am going to carve — carving is always the direct involvement of my hands and eyes with the material, never a second-hand experience. If I am required by circumstances to make a maquette, the maquette is also carved, never modelled.
Though I myself do not make any preliminary drawings or models for carvings, I have found that many of my carving students feel they need to make models to work out details. Use of a preliminary model is certainly an acceptable means of approach, but I always stress that they should CARVE the clay rather than model it (in an additive/plastic manner) so as to retain the implicit nature of the subtractive approach. In the sense that form-follows-process, modelling of the clay model for a carving will just confuse the premises underlying the basic nature of the two approaches.

[Playm]

Modeler - self *teaching* - sort of new at this. (did 2 pieces in 1998.. started up again last Oct.). - My direction (interest) is horses & the western lifestyle. I did one human portrait (my s.o. - a cowboy) .. and am pulling my hair out with the horses. (most recently, a portrait of my little AQHA stallion). I'll try to post some thumbnails below.

I'm finding that it's difficult to find many sculptors famililar with horses (for c&c) who participate in forums like this. Do you know of any? I love the help I'm getting on the internet.. but almost all replies say they know nothing about horse anatomy.

The piece below has been re-done about three times so far. .. and it's still far from finished. Perhaps there should be a discussion on how sculptors deal with the roadblocks & frustrations they sometimes encounter. LOL.

[Rick Clise]

Modeller - I've tried carving a few times and it's like my pruning the plants in the garden - too radical!

[StevenW]

I've never been comfortable with the word carver, it elicits visions of pumpkins. I'd like to think there's a better word somewhere and even the Greeks have eight or more words for love. I'd make molehills out of every mountain if I had the time. Call that what you will I guess, I don't know what it's called yet and that's a big part of why I keep doing it.

[jssculptor]

Hi is not the greek and roman for carving....SCULPTURE...thought I read that somewhere sometime!

I'm a carver who models a bit sometimes.

All the best John
www.sculptureinstone.com

[underfoot]

not sure where I fit in ,the piece I'm on at the moment was sketched then a maquette in clay, then carved, then dismantled ,then reasembled and reconstructed :confused:

[Arcticarts]

For the last 27 years I have made my living here in Alaska carving fossilized ivory and bone. Lately I have been doing larger pieces in ancient whale bone.
About ten years ago I perfected the techniques of carving woolly mammoth teeth. I now carve 20 or 30 of them a year..I started my art career in the early 70s working in the bronze foundries in my home town of Prescott Arizona.
Plans for the future include returning to modeling and of a series bronzes.

[rhendriks]

I 'am a modeler and a carver but also use a porcelain technique called pate sur pate.

Rob
http://www.reliefs.nl

[rhendriks]

Now I'am in doubt if I'am a carver because I add material and then subtract it for a part.I think I confused carving with subtract.And isn't subtraction not a form of modeling?

Rob

[dondougan]

No matter how complex and layered your process becomes as your work becomes more sophisticated, I think it comes down to what approach you find yourself looking at in order to solve the design problem.

For instance, I model clay but I almost always come back and cut and carve the leather-hard clay with knives, and then after it is fired ceramic I further cut and trim with diamond saws . . . then I usually take this element and assemble/construct a more complex piece with other materials.

In the end, though I model and construct (additive) the final design process is usually dominated by my perceptions of what isn't right and needs to go away (subtractive).

I think the basic difference between a modeller and a carver (from a carver's point of view) is encapsulated by an old cartoon by Hank Ketchum of Dennis the Menace where in the background a sculptor is carving-away at a horse. In the foreground Dennis says to his friend, "It's easy Joey, you just carve away everything that doesn't look like a horse."

Don

www.dondougan.com

[furby]

modeller for sure. can't carve for nuts & hate it. i enjoy the physical use of hammer & chisel & other cutting tools but don't enjoy carving. i admit to having collected over the years some lovely blocks of exotic wood that reside in the cupboard for the day when i decide i like it, but that day hasn't arrived yet.