Cheap silicone

[larrymoo]

I have used silicone caulking from Walmart and from Dollar Stores located in Independence, Missouri to make silicone molds at about 1/5th the cost of silicones offered by any major manufacturer here in the U.S. Has anyone had experience with this silicone material. If so, how long and successful has been your exerience? Why not use this material instead of the more costly silicones offered by U.S. manufacturers?

Thank you for responding.

[shahid hussain]

hi larry moo! if you please mention the price of that silicone on dollars so i can easily understand the cost .

[DanielUCM]

There is a thread on that subject already:

http://www.sculpture.net/community/showthread.php?t=661

Best wishes
Daniel S.

[dilida]

larry,

I use tube silicone construction adhesive, I find it much stonger than the over the counter silicone sealants. We use it professionaly, but I have experimented on my own sculptures with the over the counter silicones and had them tear when I was just pulling them off of the original, so I don't think they are nearly as strong as the Adhesive tubes.

lisa

[Merlion]

I use tube silicone construction adhesive, ...
As this comes in tubes, ths silicone would come out like tooth paste. So how do you spread the silicone over the model surface to make molds? Do you use a brush?

[shahid hussain]

hi merlion! i 've used the adhesive silicone in cartidge ....... yes the first lyer ohf it you can apply with the brush... and to thin it you can use xylene.hope its work :)

[dilida]

I've thinned it with xylene, but very rarely, and brushed a first coat, then back it up with a finger-coat, just dip your fingers in soapy water to keep the silicone from sticking, and press it upwards with your finger tips. You can apply the first coat this way also, so you can press the bubbles out and make sure it adheres to absolutly the whole surface. It's about 6.50 a tube, not cheap.

[shahid hussain]

here's a problem of shrinkage with cartige silicone do you have any other without this problem? one more thing...... that after one or two fine layers you can use the dust of fibre glass mate too..... its help a bit of shrinkage :)

[Lab]

I have used the Tube silicone before, and found that it produced mixed results; sometimes good, but a lot of bad experiences. However if you want to speed up the curing time, the simplest thing to do is force all of the silicone out by cutting off the end (where the tip and cylinder meet) then push the silicone out with a stick from the back end. Once you force all of it out into a disposable container, use the little cup that comes out of the silicone tube as a measuring cup. Fill that little plastic end (cup) with water. (Provided this is the "clear" silicone water sealant we are talking about) Pour in one measure of water THEN, stir the mix until it turns not so clear...you will notice that it thickens up a bit. Once the water is mixed well enough pour out the excess then start to apply the material to the work. the consistency should be much like peanut butter, only sticker. You can use a putty knife.
.....But after I had had my fair share of good and bad, (mostly bad) experiences with this Cheap quality but not cheap priced method, I would strongly suggest using the silicones made for sculptors by companies who perfected the right mix for the right job. It's always good to find different ways to produce the end results, but consider your original art, is it "Cheap" enough to you to take chances with cheap methods. I've lost much hard work, not to mention time, to this method, and would rather spend more to make a reliable, reusable mold.
besides dilida is right, after buying plenty of silicone tubes from home depot, the cost adds up!

[shahid hussain]

does silicon water effects on curing time? if so then how much it takes?

[Lab]

does silicon water effects on curing time? if so then how much it takes?


Well, when you cut the tube open and push out the silicon, that little cap that comes out with it should measure out the amount you need (1 and 1/2 fluid Ounces). Just one cap full of water per tube. It takes a while but when mixed well it should take less time to harden. However if you are going to use the clear silicon in the tube, please test it out on something first before you use it on your work. I made the mistake of going to work with the stuff and ruined one of my sculptures. The results are sometimes good, but I had more negative results than positive.

[Landseer]

you can use xylene.hope its work :)Xylene is a benzene derivative, benzene is carcinogenic...


Xylene affects the brain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain). High levels from exposure for short periods (14 days or less) or long periods (more than 1 year) can cause headaches, lack of muscle coordination, dizziness, confusion, and changes in one's sense of balance. Exposure of people to high levels of xylene for short periods can also cause irritation of the skin, eyes, nose, and throat; difficulty in breathing; problems with the lungs; delayed reaction time; memory difficulties; stomach discomfort; and possibly changes in the liver and kidneys. It can cause unconsciousness and even death at very high levels (see inhalants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inhalants)).

Studies of unborn animals indicate that high concentrations of xylene may cause increased numbers of deaths, and delayed growth and development. In many instances, these same concentrations also cause damage to the mothers. It is not yet known whether xylene harms the unborn fetus if the mother is exposed to low levels of xylene during pregnancy.

[Merlion]

Just one cap full of water per tube. It takes a while but when mixed well it should take less time to harden. However if you are going to use the clear silicon in the tube, please test it out on something first before you use it on your work. .
This is interesting, mixing tube silicone with water. I may try this out. As you said, test it on something else first.

[shahid hussain]

hi landseer ! thanks so much for giving me such helpful and knowledgeable information about xylene .......... really i did'nt know of its such harms i ve' used it about ten ,fifteen times...and now almost facing all those diseases you've mentioned :( but i always thought .responsible to all of these to my wife family, friends and clients :D now i come to know xylene is also a reason :) ........ now i would certainly leave its use for forever . but i need your help now that what would be better to thin the cartridge silicone? thanx again for given information :)

[Merlion]

Here is some information about Xylene, quite detailed, and authoritative.

ToxFAQs™ for Xylene (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts71.html)

[Landseer]

what would be better to thin the cartridge silicone? thanx again for given information :)All of these solvents, be it benzene, paint thinner, acetone, Xylene, mineral spirits etc are toxic and can be absorbed thru the skin- especially acetone. One thing is that these substances disolve things that are on the skin and carry it into the body. So it's never a good idea to get this stuff on your skin OR breathe it in.
The fact that they can detect Xylene's breakdown products in URINE after exposure to it proves it.

I don't know what to use, you are using a product that was never meant for any other use than caulking and sealing cracks around windows, it is the acetic acid in it that causes that strong eye burning vinegar stink. Silicone MOLD RUBBER does not have this stink and some formulas have their own thinners made for them if needed, some are brushable, while others are pourable to begin with.

It's best to stick to industry standard products developed, tested and MADE for use as mold rubber, that way you know how the product will work, it will be consistant and have results and reliable properties that are stated on data sheets.

I would never risk a valuable model on experimental jury rigged caulk or anything else of that nature, models and molds take too long to make and cost to much to play games with, for my time I'd rather be CASTING, sculpting and promoting than replacing junky molds that don't work right- casting and sculpting is where the MONEY is, making molds is what costs you money and take it out of your pockets.

[shahid hussain]

landseer you are right i am sure i will helpfull. thanks to you.:)

[Mr. Malloy]

Hi, I am new to this great site! I have been looking for a cheap way to do rubber mold making and the only thing I can find is the "blue stuff" that is what I call it because I can not remember the name. Landseer, you are right! and this blue stuff is used by professionals and is safe to put on live humans. even my face, if I wanted. It is NOT CHEAP though. I am working on maybe a "home made" type that is safe? I can not find any recipes for it yet. But I know I can not afford the blue stuff. And I have to drive an hour to get that stuff, from where I live. I am in Olympia, Washington, blah! I am about an hour south of Seattle. I have not found a sculpture community here. Also, the "art galleries" here are so small and deal mostly with cheasy water-color paintings. I work big and mostly in abstract sculpture. mostly steal/welded. I do not have a "studio" because I am on an extreemly tight budget. I have pliles of scrap metal in my yard with metal working tools in and around the garageless rental house. I am also looking for tips in finding a place to work. Not eveyone in town likes the look of my unfinnished works all around the place.

[evaldart]

Mr. Malloy. Just rough it for a while. Go find a old cheap garage or store-front in the crappy part of town and throw your mattress in the corner. Blast away...And when the scrap looks better coming out than it did when it went in, you know you're doin good. Drag that stuff to Seattle and meke em show it. Welcome.

[Mr. Malloy]

Evaldart, thanks for the tips. I agree, thats the way to go.

[Landseer]

I have used silicone caulking from Walmart and from Dollar Stores located in Independence, Missouri to make silicone molds at about 1/5th the cost of silicones offered by any major manufacturer here in the U.S.

Why not use this material instead of the more costly silicones offered by U.S. manufacturers?
Because as you will discover, window caulk is NOT the same as mold maker's silicone, they don't even SMELL at all alike. Caulk is for temporarily sealing WINDOW GAPS and for sealing gaps and holes in siding etc, it's made to be cheap and generally people have to scrape it out and re-caulk once a year or two because it fails. Unlike mold maker's silicone It stinks like vinegar because of the acetic acid in it, it also does not cure in thick sections, mold maker's silicone will cure overnight in ANY thickness, and generally has almost NO smell at all.

1/5th the PRICE is not the same as 1/5th the COST, materials are the least of the mold making COST, unless you consider your time is worthless or you enjoy standing by a model smearing smelly sticky glop all over it repeately. When you factor in your TIME, and the time of replacing this mold, you will figure out you have it backwards, it may be 1/5th the price but it's 5 times the COST to you in the end.

Using this stuff for molds is like painting tinted interior shellac on the outside of your house because the shellac is $5 a gallon less than exterior housepaint. It may be $5 less but when you factor in your TIME spent plus re-doing it prematurely when it fails, it winds up costing MORE in wasted time.
I don't understand why people don't GET it, this caulk thing comes up repeatedly here along with the same question to us about "why don't you guys use THIS and save $ instead of that "expensive" mold rubber?"

Don't you think most of us have already tried EVERYTHING on the market? with my mold making experience going back to 1976 don't you think "IVE" tried just about everything? My last 50+ molds have all been Quantum Silicone @ about $125 a kit.

What does that suggest?