MA, post grads outside the UK?....

[CroftonGraphics]

Hi there,

I am considering at some point in my future life to look to a MA/Postgrad in sculpture, I am 31 so presume by the laws of average I have a few more years left yet!

My first degree was applied design, interior design but I know people cross disciplines with an MA especially with a folio to show.

Anyway, as I would have to probably pay for an MA, I was wondering how much the course would cost in another country and at a good art school.

For example in the USA. I am basing it on a 1 year course.

Any feedback here would be good, I am particularly interested in colleges on the west coast, recomend any? I am also open to other countries such as Mexico, Spain etc. Any ideas would be great and any recomendations of schools etc.

My interest at the moment lies in mostly in pushing around non figurative abstract forms so would love to find somewhere that would allow me to do this.

[evaldart]

CG, Its been 17 years sinnce I finished my MFA program so things might have changed but most of the UC California and State universities will have significant art programs, with Cal Arts in Valencia probably the most notable - as well as the San Francisco art Institute.

31 is a fine age to do this: you're presumably mature enough to maximize the experience and use the time wisely and still young enough approach it all with the prpoer fire. I was in graduate school at 24, too young, all fire no wisdom or control. It was my ticket to NYC.

you can research the faculties and facilitites online. See what might suit you. But remember to allow for great changes to happen, you might end up working in an area or medium you never would have imagined...that is what this education is about, exposing yourself to possibilities.

It aint cheap but most artists aren't afraid of squalor and debt, they assume that the riches are always just around the corner. I'm still assuming this. But I have no regrets.

And you will meet some good people that you will know for the rest of your
life. You will become prepared for opportunities and learn how to compose a killer artists statement. :D

Oh, and the programs for this are mostly two years.

[CroftonGraphics]

Thanks for the feedback.
After raising money and possible funding sources, arranging time out etc I will be 33 at least!

The reason I want to do an MA or MFA is to open up my mind and approach.
I hope I can find a 1 year course, in the UK many are 1 year while the main ones in London such as the RCA etc are 2.

While course fees in US seam more, the living expenses are less and also the experience and broadening of horizons studying abroad would be good I feel than just doing it in UK. I am even open to finding a course in say Mexico, Chile or Spain.

Thanks,

James.

[iowasculptor]

I went to Clemson University in Clemson SC for my MFA, it was a great experience all around. The school also gave me a tuition waiver and a grad assistantship (teaching assignment). So in the end it was really affordable, I did it with 3 kids and a wife and turned 30 while I was there. You need to choose a school not necessarily for their prestige but for how you will fit with their teaching styles and philosophy. This may mean choosing a school that is smaller rather than bigger. For me Clemson worked great only about 14 grad students at a time and only 3-4 sculpture MFA students. I was able to talk to any of the grad faculty anytime I needed and had pretty much free run of the studios, the undergrads stayed out of my way. It really became a family and we all got to be good friends. Anyway you will have to decide what you want and what works best for you. I would also suggest visiting those schools that you are interested in so the faculty know who you are when your app comes in, this can make a real difference.
good luck
matt

[CroftonGraphics]

Thanks,

More sound advice, I liked the look of your ex school, I googled it. It also looks in a nice part of the world.
I couldnt seem to find their fees.

Smaller and less well known institutions, I have often heard many in differing disciplines glad that they went rather than a really presitgious school.

The SF art institute I think was around $25,000 a year just for tuition.
Is that a normal price or in the higher band?

In the UK a one year MA costs around equiv of $8000 course fees at a reputable college, so it seams cheaper in UK but then again living costs are higher here.

[evaldart]

CG, for me the school was only part of the decision. The city ended up educating me about art far more than the art institute (Pratt). While having access to studios and tools was infinitely important to my development of technical ability, the ocean of visual and physical stimulation was the prime motivator, opening countless avenues ahead of me to pursue. Consider that the life experience that walks beside your educational pursuits can be at least as valuable as the time spent within the degree curriculum (which will usually be pretty loose and accomodating to your desires).

[CroftonGraphics]

Hi sure I agree, life experience is a great thing.

Speaking of which, a lot of the famous artists from the USA and also Epstein who emigrated to the UK went to the Art Students League of America, was the policy of that place just to attend there whenever to learn without the aim of a qualification? Thats a cool thing.

James.

[jssculptor]

Hi Crofton?

Had a very quick look at your website...very pro and all that but!!!
i worked as an art director, graphic designer finally illustrator for some thirty years then discovered stone carving did BA Sculpture now just about to start PGD leading to MA in Cyprus. The letters don't matter the experience does. As an art director things where pretty good financially, but rubbish creatively..telling lies basically, Graphic designer OK but boring, Illustrator OK, but debilitating creatively...all about money...just a job but ripping myself apart creatively and repeating myself, finding a style, styles that would sell...capitalist shit really. Then discovered carving stone, art history all that shit, changed my life...now totally broke but much happier and making stuff that really means something to me, if someone buys it with there own hard earned money then great, I feel good about that and it keeps me just about alive without selling my soul. I have decided to do the Post Grad in Cyprus cos it fits in with my current ideas about relating mythology to contemporary life, because it is so cheap £1350 including basic accom and gives me the opportunity to work in an environment that is relevant to my work with people that are sympathetic to my needs in a climate that is very pleasant during the Autumn, Winter, and Spring...check out Cyprus College of Art. Research Stass Paraskos etc, etc. it all looks good to me.

Good Luck...John

[CroftonGraphics]

Hi John,
thanks. It looks a nice place.
I actually like the idea of Spain myself, such as Cadiz area as I like the culture there and would be a good influence.

By the way, I am James, Crofton is a middle name I dont know why I initially logged in as CG here and now I cannot work out how on earth to change it to James3d etc although e mailed the support etc.

I hear you with commercial work. That is why I avoided working for ad agencies and doing the 'London thing'.

A lot of my commercial work at moment is with engineering companies which I find fascinating and the shapes and designs from these giant structures I am sure give me ideas for my sculpture work which I will post here as and when.

I hope you will post on this site how you like the course etc sometime.

Best regards,

James.

p.s. very nice work on your site, I especially like the way the light falls on your work in the photos.

[racine]

have u ever heard of De Ateliers in Amsterdam? NL its very elitist but excellent too. the right candidate will be funded through this exraordinary experience. a warning though, u need a portfolio that could get u into the RCA twice over. they take on a few internationals each year, makes it more interesting.
its 2 yrs, though they can kick u out if u dont work well.. big studios 24 hr access all year round [even christmas day people work there] tutors [the best most interesting artists money can buy] only on a very intense tuesday. money, appartment ,studio and interesting holidays. its unique although im told there is something in New York that is based on it [ps1?] . there is no piece of paper at the end , a pure ivory tower..
its not all hard edges, i did this from 1989-1991, went back 2 years ago to say hi, was readily remembered and warmly welcomed, it felt like going home. this is unusual for an institution no?

[CroftonGraphics]

Thanks also,
yes I know a lot of people who go back to their old institutions and even if the past student was a favourite the lecturers say they are 'busy'.
This expression to me has infested the UK these days as an excuse to be nice.

Anyway, that establishment looks very interesting.

I found this http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/artcolleges/

Not sure if allowed to put a link to that but that is a great database of
colleges around the world!

[obseq]

I, too, have been mired in the search for MFA programs, so I'll toss some of my thoughts into the fray.

SFAI was mentioned above, and this was the first school I focused on when I began considering grad programs. A very trusted professor from my undergrad days mentioned that it has been undeservedly riding the crest of its prior reputation for some time now, and a visit to the campus in 2003 somewhat confirmed this for me. Likewise, in the Bay Area, California College of Art, is disappointing in the fact that it lacks mention of any sculpture/spatial arts graduate program.

Each program seems far too preoccupied with vague forays into an exhausted amalgam of socioeconomic-pop-culture-gender-studies, (some(thing) that I have absolutely zero interest in exploring) with scant emphasis on material proficiency/execution at best. I'd prefer to continue learning from a materials expert rather than a practitioner of pseudo-intellectual correlative thought.

What I do want from a program are outstanding facilities and an intelligent faculty that welcomes pointed and precise exploration along with being capable of directly addressing technical issues related to sculpture.

[Will]

As far as programs go, I have found two schools that seem promising and both are state schools. Being that I am interested mostly in stone,I found these by searching for stone programs. They both have great facilities for steel/foundry also. University of North Texas in Denton, TX. 45 minutes north of Dallas. The second is Colorado State University in Ft. Collins. Again, about an hour north of Denver. state tuition is a big bonus for me. I really can't afford a private college and these schools are very well vested in their 3D programs. Very much worth looking at.

http://www.art.unt.edu/divisions/sculpt.cfm = Univ. of N. Texas
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Art/ = Colorado State Univ.

Slainte!
Will

[CroftonGraphics]

Nice links, it all costs though.

I looked at career development loans the other day thinking perhaps would be good rather than dig into savings, they are at 10%! now! and rising probably.

Makes me think, would it be cheaper to take a year or half a year out, buy a round the world ticket and immerse yourself in tribal art, eastern art, etc, stay at places and absorb it all.

Mind you you wouldnt get the letters after your name!

Incidentally, a book on sculpture since 1945, interestingly a lot of the major influential people named had training in other fields such as architecture.

Mind you that belongs in the self taught poll.

I suppose one has to ask why does one want an MFA, if its for letters after ones name then it is the wrong reason. If it is to open up ones ideas and be influenced out of ones own 'me box', surely this could be done in other ways such as aforementioned. These are questions I am trying to figure out myself.
I do like the idea of studying for an MFA to give some structure but then again, I dont want to attend somewhere where they crush your visions.

At the end of the day, when we die oneday it doesnt matter what qualifications or accolades we have, just what we have created or not as the case may be.

Do we worry about the qualifications that the cave painter had when he put his interpratation of the hunt onto the cave wall?

Sorry its late!

[Merlion]

Just curious, after all these soul searching, have you now decided on what you are going to do ?

[CroftonGraphics]

Ha ha,

Well any more courses are on hold,
I am doing a technical based correspondance course at moment which is teaching me a great deal on metal filing and material properties plus a lot more that I can apply to my sculptural ideas.

Also, I decided an MA for me was the wrong route for me at moment.
Partly as I would have to pay a lot and I had a bad experience from doing my undegrad design degree.

I got good marks if I did what they wanted me to do, then I started to get interested in architectural movements to do with industrial design type architecture that was also ecologically sustainable, ie future systems.

My lecturer described it as 'moon architecture' and marked me down and I also felt they did not deserve their status as lecturers.

All they wanted was students to churn out some nice little models year on year in the college style without realising the actual design qualities and systems devised.

One lecturer was so ill informed, I remember he said 'Richard Gehry' instead of 'Frank Gehry' to me, so he could not even get the name of a famous architect correct.

Students on my course who did what the lecturers wanted but had no intellectual backbone got good marks as they fitted their boxes.

Ok bad experience but Im fine now, perhaps it was wrong instutution and course for me, but at moment I prefer to learn myself. I wouldnt want to repeat this process but pay over £10,000 for the priveledge.

Ok rant over lets have a revolution! lol.

[Will]

I have been going through the same decisions, both in regards to my BFA and MFA. Trying to plan out my academic career in advance. I'm really bad with details and having everything set really helps me out.

I had planned on attending Portland State University for my BFA, but found out that PSU does not offer a BFA and the cost of moving to a another location will be a great burden, but I have to move to get to a program that will be of benefit to my long term plans.

So, I have been looking and relooking at different programs around the country. I'd love to study over seas, but that cost is just too great.

The University of North Texas is still on the radar, and now I have two more that seem viable too. University of Buffalo (NY) http://visualstudies.buffalo.edu/
and Virginia Commonwealth University http://www.vcu.edu/

All have intense programs and don't look like they would cut any slack. Seem like programs that one could really grow and be pushed hard. Just the sort of thing I'm looking for. I've been told that I set the bar too high. I tell them I have delusions of grandeur and want to make the history books. :D

I realize that I will be paying through the nose afterwards, but I want the best that a state college can offer. As far as the letters on my name,I couldn't really give a crap, but I also want to teach, so I will need them.

I also see an advantage to college. It has exposed me to materials and processes that I would not have had other wise. Also, it affords me a studio greater than my own. I'm not sure if others would agree.

my 2¢

W~

[Merlion]

Is this site of any help?

ISC Directory of Undergraduate and Graduate Sculpture Programs (http://www.sculpture.org/edu_programs/programSearch.php)

[evaldart]

Will, as a student the facilities and the course breadth at a given art institution should play a huge role in your decisions. Learning to do as many things as possible will open your options wide for the future - school is for this. But think about geography too. Don't get yourself too isolated. The relationships that you make in grad school can serve you the rest of your career, (usually those relationships with fellow students, not the teachers). You should provide yourself with access to an exciting and flourishing art scene- this will likely be in or near a big city. These places attract the best.

As far as the future, the university facilities can hold you back if you become a teacher. They provide you with an excuse not to set up a real studio. Its so important to function in YOUR OWN place. A place where you can always leave things however you like and no one will ever interupt anything you are doing. Professors who use the university facilities as their studios are missing out on the greatest part of the artmaking life - the relationship between an artist and his studio. There, You can push any tool to the limit (its yours), listen to your crazy music as LOUD as you want to and no OSHA clean-ups to punctuate your process - and you can do everything the dangerous way if you need to...because results come first, not safety. Fill the fridge up with whatever you like and take a nap on the floor in the middle of the day with a menacing old hound-dog. You dream it up...

[jOe~]

The magazine "ART in America" had a very fascinating feature article on art schools in May 2007. Thirteen educators and artists offered a broad group crit. of major institutions and MFA programs. Should be available in any decent library. I really think its a must read.

[CroftonGraphics]

I think you are all lucky to be in the USA so many good chouces of colleges.

[Merlion]

Not really, Crofton. Here is a long list with links for UK (http://www.nafae.org.uk/courses.shtml), from the National Associationn for Fine Art Education.

[CroftonGraphics]

What I mean is the cultural span of the colleges in the usa and the americas as a whole.

I am well aware of the colleges in the UK, if you are familiar with them, they all somewhat follow a similar pattern. From what I have seen, colleges in the usa seem more diverse. Mind you the grass it always greener etc etc.

[Merlion]

Well Crofton. You are not comparing equal with equal. The US is much larger than the UK.

Europe as a whole has perhaps more varieties of sculpture education programs, and certainly more cultures.

[CroftonGraphics]

I certainly agree Europe has a great deal of Art colleges that would be of great interest. For me the UK (United Kingdom) isnt such a choice for me personally.

It is probably as I completed an undegrad degree there and if I have to pay, I would like to do it somewhere with a different culture.

Incidentally, although I did not like my undergrad design degree,
I went back to my old college this summer to do sculpture metal course which I would give 5 stars.

[Will]

Crofton, I would love to trade with you. I'm searching the US for schools, but only because I can't afford to study in Europe.

Like you said, life is always greener on the other side. As far as credentials I'm not sure if there is a difference between EU and the US.

W~

[CroftonGraphics]

Hi will,

Have you looked into eastern european countries or even China?
They might be a lot cheaper and would be culturally very interesting.

Also, if you look at a previous post here 'jssculptor' said he was doing a course in Cyrpus not too much. Perhaps he could let us know how it is going?

For me, I am happy to push my own journey into sculptures for now, by reading as much history of sculpture as possible, reading about contemporary works etc. For me, I love creating abstract forms in metal, plaster.

I like to find harmony and aesthetic balance, I presume this is anachronistic to many colleges to day with their liking of concept art, a lecturer may even pick me out to destroy my ideas. This does happen, many lecturers are good people but like all part of society, some can be closed minded, mediocre and dare I say jelous.

I also hope to go to summer schools as much as I can, if anyone can recomend a good scultpure one in the USA, please let me know.

It is unfortunate from my last experience of college, I am now reticent to look to an MFA which could well be very rewarding intelectually. If I overcome this, I may well look to an MFA, perhaps now, or in my 40s, 50s, 60s whenever.....

[Will]

Crofton, may you have good journeys and find what you need outoflife.College is not the only road (as we all know) and if it is to be in your future, you'll figure it out.

I am interested in Eastern Europe.I will investigate more on the subject. My step father was Hungarian and always wanted to take me to Budapest. Who knows, if it's to be...

Slainte!

Will

[ara]

Hi i know this isn't a hugely recent thread but I was searching for MFA sculpture programs myself and thought i would report my findings.

Also anybody looking to learn about technique and wanting to study at BA level in the UK, then I heartly recommend West Wales School of the Arts.

I am in my third year here and absolutely love it!

I left middlesex university in london having started the ba fine art for two weeks before chucking it in in favour of the welsh one, becuase there was no emphasis on structure or learning processes.

Unfortunately it does not do MA level degrees or i would definately stay.

I won't go off on one about my experiences at these places on here, but if you want some more info then pm me and i can send pics etc.

back to MFA's... I applied to the RCA and to a fantastic place called Alfred university in New york state. Alfred offers a full tuition waiver and a paid graduate assistantship to each accepted student be they residential or international.

I didnt get in due to lack of experience and not having yet completed my BA, but the facilities this place has are amazing! their two main areas are metal and glass, having numerous cupolas, cupolettes, others furnaces (including induction) a neon workshop, five huge glass kilns, glory holes with more currently being built!

If you can spare $50 for the ap fee I would go for this place although the deadline for this years mfa has passed.

the others i was looking at were lousiana, which has a good sculpture department and i believe you can get a partial bursary of some kind, minnesota, again fantastic facilities but they only take 2 mfa sculpture students a year. San francisico state was the other one which has already been mentioned.

Jss sculptor, i am also interested in hearing how your cyprus course is going as i was looking into the summer course/art camp offered by the same place.

Crofton/ james have you decided on your path as yet?

Cheers

Ara

[evaldart]

Alfred IS amazing in the tech/facilities dept. I have a friend who did his Masters work there with a specialization in ROBOTICS (see if you can find another school that has that in the ART dept), which he eventually taught there as a grad asst. But I understand it to be a place of rigorous tech learning - which is only HALF of what you need out of an art education.

[obseq]

Hi, Ara,

Can you expand on this? What, exactly, did the graduate committee tell you about experience and the lack thereof?




back to MFA's...

...I didnt get in due to lack of experience and not having yet completed my BA, but the facilities this place has are amazing!


Ara

[CroftonGraphics]

Hi thanks for info on Alfred college. I will check it out.

My path for now outside my 3d graphics design money making, is to build up a good few 'works' of sculpture and approach galleries and put together some proposals.

I also was pleased as I am selling some city sketch/drawing/pen and ink work so this boosts my drive to push 2d and 3d work forward.

Am still interested in MAs abroad not in UK in a year or so, I plan to move to Spain too so want to look at some there.

I no longer see not having an MA in sculpture and being trained as a designer not in fine arts as a bar to going ahead but still am open minded about good courses in future.

[Haptica]

Any thoughts on MFA programs in Canada?

I searched the database and it only listed NSCAD, but I know a lot more schools in Canada offer MFA programs.

I'm especially looking for schools with foundries, but I'm having a little trouble locating them. So far, I know NSCAD, Concordia and York have foundries.

Does anybody know of any others?

Or, for that matter of any Canadian schools with MFA programs and glass-blowing facilities?

I would be really grateful for any advice on this matter :)

[cheesepaws]

I can't remember if any of these have foundries but The University of Ottawa,
The University of British Columbia and L'Université du Québec have MFA programs.