Stainless Treatment

[chaz-abstracts]

Hiya!
I'm just finshing my first Kinetic Stainless Steel Piece and jumped
right in not knowing or thinking that stainless doesn't rust but I
made alot of mistakes frist grinding it down with metal disks putting steel into it then using acid to get that out and not
thourghly washing it off, so that reacted ,so I acid treated it again
washing it again then using 3m disk pads to get the finish I want
but my question is there anything besides clearcoat that I can do
to safe guard it. It has laser cutout stars on the faces which make
it difficult for any hand applicaion so I was thinking spraying,but
what Thanks Chaz

[Araich]

I think that if you've rubbed mild steel into it, then your options are limited to sealing the surface.

I had some work powdercoated clear years ago, and it's holding up OK.

[sculptorsam]

I believe there is a clear powdercoat as well. But given what I assume are some variations in surface texture from the various attempts to clean the stainless, you might want to go with a silvery (or whatever) color powdercoat. That would give an even surface and mask the inevitable rusting that will take place beneath the clearcoat. Rust is a bitch.

Sam

[chaz-abstracts]

Thanks I didn't think of Powder coating on stainless

[RuBert]

Hi,

I was wondering what grade of stainless you used and what acid you used.

If the mild steel is deeply embedded it can be hard to remove, but in general stainless steel should not be coated with anything if it is to be outdoors.

Some sculptors have switched to 308 just because it has a higher chromium content and withstands a polluted shop environment better.

[chaz-abstracts]

Hiya,
I found out that the stainless was in the 400 series and not the
308 as you have said this was because the pieces where from a
lasser job that called for harder stainless and I bought the cut
outs and of course I'm still on my learing curve so I thought
stainless is stainless I put it up yesterday in the center of town
Iwill post a picture as soon as I can Thanks again Chaz

[chaz-abstracts]

Oh yes Moradic Acid and didn't wash it properly the frist time but
looks good the second time but I fel it will react again I will see when I get back in the spring

[RuBert]

Hi,

To clean the carbon off of stainless you need to use a diluted solution of Nitric Acid. I've never experimented with Muriatic Acid, but I believe that it would not be nearly as effective as nitric acid. Actually, I would worry about using it because I know it can also be used to accelerate rusting of mild steel.

Industry in my area uses nitric acid to passivate stainless and I have a large piece (304 stainless) that has been outdoors now for 16 years without rusting that was treated with nitric acid.

Russ

[ironman]

Hi, I have a question about nitric acid. where do you get it and what is the formula for diluting it? Thanks,Jeff

[RuBert]

Chemical supply houses carry it, but I've heard that it is harder to get now. Acids in general have become more regulated, especially after 9/11. Perhaps Fritchie would know of a good source.

For dilution it will depend on the percent strength you are able to start with. You might start with a 10% solution and be careful about going over 20%. In that range should work.

[jsimms]

Use only citric or nitric acids on stainless!!

see this link for good info
http://www.finishing.com/192/03.html

Lighter fluid will work to remove/pacify small marks
Also flitz brand polish

Electro polishing best if available!!
j

[EJB]

My vote is to avoid coating stainless steel unless you are attempting to achieve a color change. Most coatings will not adhere to stainless as well as to mild steel and will require maintenance or refinishing at some point. The key to non-rusting stainless surface as you have dicovered is avoiding contamination during fabrication. At this point you may want to consider electro-polishing. It is an industrial process which may or may not be practical due to size or fragility of the piece or budget constraints. It is a process similar to plating in which the metal is placed in a solution bath and current is passed through to 'pull out' any surface iron. Check your local Yellow Pages under PLATING or POLISHING.

[RuBert]

EJB is right that it is best to avoid coating stainless steel. There is no harder coating than the micro-thin chromium coat that forms on the surface anyway.

In my own studio I won't allow any mild steel to be worked in the same area, or with the same tools, especially abrasives. The best way to avoid the problem is to not allow it in the environment. Even the grinding dust and contaminated work gloves can be a issue.

I know that is not a workable solution for everyone, with space and shared shop issues. But the concept that you need to be careful about metal contamination when working with stainless is real - especially if the piece will be eventually placed in a outdoor environment.

[Araich]

What are the basic health issues to consider when working with stainless?

[fritchie]

Chemical supply houses carry it, but I've heard that it is harder to get now. Acids in general have become more regulated, especially after 9/11. Perhaps Fritchie would know of a good source.

For dilution it will depend on the percent strength you are able to start with. You might start with a 10% solution and be careful about going over 20%. In that range should work.

I would suggest you try a local chemical supply house if near a large city, or just conceivably a university. Hardware stores typically carry muriatic acid (hydrochloric), and vinegar is a dilute (and unpurified, unless distilled) version of acetic acid. As Russ said, powerful chemicals are much harder to get after 9.11.01. There’s a good patina supply house in the SF, CA area which used to advertize widely in art magazines, and I’ve bought stuff from them, but not for about 6-8 years. I’ll try to get the address tomorrow.

On dilution, I think the standard product is about 30%, and the bottle should be labeled. I’ve never worked with steel, so listen to others for dilution.

[RuBert]

What are the basic health issues to consider when working with stainless?

I must admit I don't want to give advice for using acids as they are very caustic. Fritchie might be able to describe that better or we could find a materials safety sheet.

It is probably worth stating for clarity that it not necessary to use acids just because you use stainless. The passivation procedure is really a specialized application that is mostly used in industry for small parts.

In general, Stainless is one of the least reactive metals to work with. Think about that it is used for earrings and piercings whereas copper or steel is generally not.

There are still the normal studio hazards, but one reason I like it is because it doesn't give off the dangerous zinc fumes in welding as does brass or galvanized metal.

[Araich]

... but one reason I like it is because it doesn't give off the dangerous zinc fumes in welding as does brass or galvanized metal.

But it does give off dangerous fumes when heated right? What of the dust?

[RuBert]

But it does give off dangerous fumes when heated right? What of the dust?

No it really doesn't out-gas much when it gets hot. I have read that you could eat the inert particles and they would pass on through the body, but I obviously wouldn't want to try it. Most comments about argon used in welding is that it is inert and harmless in small amounts also. It does displace the oxygen, so cross ventilation so it doesn't fill up your welding mask is good.

Sandpaper contains silicates that some worry about, and different grinding stones contain particles to worry about. Many people recommend a dust respirator for the grinding part of the operation.

Most any other metal will cause me to break out, but not stainless. It can clog the pores of your skin like any kind of dirt, but it doesn't react much with sweat compared to steel or copper.

[chaz-abstracts]

Hiya All,
Just got in and went to see how the piece had held up, and Yes I did contaminate it by grinding it with the steel pads,and yes it is rusting SHIT!
Soooooooooo! get the crane take it apart and Power Coat I guess? Should of talked to you all before,but I know everything Right! My wife always say's I'm the only guy who runs and jumps into the pool before he checks to see if there water in there,but I always tell her I will figure something out on my way down .Went Splat on this one.
See YA!
CHAZ

[ironman]

Hi, I'm new to this web site and I'd just like to say I think it's great. It is very heartwarming to be able to share info with other sculptors. I've asked a couple of questions and received many answers. Thank you all very much.
Sincerely, Jeff

[EJB]

My understanding is that the biggest danger in using stainless steel is the Chromium alloy, a known carcinogen, particularly when you may be exposed to the fine particles when grinding or plasma cutting. I'm with Russ. A dust mask or respirator and good ventilation are essential when doing any metal work. You may be able to eat stainless but I have no idea what it may do when stuck in your lungs.

[jwebb]

In my "day job" we weld and cut and grind and melt various kinds of stainless; chrome based and other "super-alloys", and titanium, etc. We also use acids to etch and chem-mill some of them. That all needs to be done very carefully. Acids require very good ventilation, as well as something like KOH or NaOH to neutralize the residue, and those are strong and dangerous caustics themselves. Disposal of all the above is another problem. I would not mess with Nitric, HF or etc. on my own. If you absolutely have to have it done, farm it out to someplace that's answerable to OSHA and has Workmen's Comp. For melting or welding, you need very good atmosphere control - either by Argon or other inert gas envelopes, or by doing it inside a vacuum - just to get good properties, let alone for safety. Argon itself is very dangerous, as it's odorless, colorless, tasteless, and heavier than air. It will fill up a vessel or pit, and we've had people literally drown in it. The first symptom is - you lose consciousness. All of this stuff needs to be approached carefully, and training and following directions is advised. (Of course, I violate most of this myself at times on my own work, and do lots of welding with a strong fan blowing over me or simply holding my breath.)

[RuBert]

I would agree with jwebb that argon can fill up a tank, displacing oxygen - and if you happen to be inside it that's not a good thing to say the least.

So, although considered nontoxic, that is a danger with Argon.

I just checked the Praxair site and they say this: Although nontoxic, argon can act as a simple asphyxiant by displacing air or liquefying oxygen. In addition, exposure to liquid argon may cause severe frostbite to the skin and eyes. To avoid these harmful effects, producers and customers should follow strict safety guidelines for storage and handling, and consult our argon Material Safety Data Sheet. Here is a link to the Argon Material Safty Sheet (http://www.praxair.com/praxair.nsf/0/2CF24C4634F8E5A68525654F0050FFD8?OpenDocument&Start=1&Count=1000&ExpandView&Menu=&ThemeId=339999&View=LeftNavMenu)

[fritchie]

I must admit I don't want to give advice for using acids as they are very caustic. Fritchie might be able to describe that better or we could find a materials safety sheet.

It is probably worth stating for clarity that it not necessary to use acids just because .......

I have to agree with Russ here, that I have become reluctant to give advice. The legal climate today (not after 9.11, but trending for the last 40 years or so) has making helping people difficult. Every strong chemical I have bought for the last half-dozen or so years has come with its own Material Safety Data Sheet, an OSHA requirement, I think. These can be tedious to read, but typically cover all safety points, including accidental exposure to body parts, swallowing, etc., I believe.

[fritchie]

I would suggest you try ... There’s a good patina supply house in the SF, CA area which used to advertize widely in art magazines, and I’ve bought stuff from them, but not for about 6-8 years. I’ll try to get the address tomorrow. ...

The place is Bryant Labs, Inc., 1101 Fifth St., Berkeley, CA 74710. As I said, I last ordered from them 7 - 8 years ago. My bottle of cupric nitrate carries their label, probably divided from a bulk source. All other materials were distributed “as is” from other suppliers. Even about that time, it was getting hard to ship material like this by mail (UPS, etc.) Today it may be next to impossible. Try some of the routes I suggested above, if you need these things.

[fritchie]

I just checked the web for Bryant Labs, Inc. Here’s (http://www.bryantlaboratory.com/art.html) the address for their art section. They say they have 80 years in business, and I found service excellent the 2 - 3 times I ordered things. Earlier, they typically advertized in each issue of ISC’s “Sculpture”.

[novabelgica]

I'm experiencing a similar problem with two of my stainless steel sculptures. Even though I've tried to keep contamination to near zero, I've noticed little rusty spots on the stainless.

I'm going to try some nitric acid on it, as was suggested here, but I would like to know more about the effect of nitric acid. Does it just take the rust off, or does it also make a 'film' to prevent further oxidising?

After using it, do I clean the stainless with water or do I use something else to neutralise any leftover nitric acid? What if I wanted to put a clear varnish over it? (one of the sculptures is near the sea, and since my client decided to supply the material and was too cheap to get me 316 stainless, I've had to work with 304. As expected this one has quite a lot of small rust marks.)

Also, if no action were to be taken, how would the rust affect the stainless in the long run? Is this just a superficial thin layer of rust, or does it 'eat' into the stainless and pose a risk to the structure in say 10 or 20 years?

Anyone know?

[julian]

Timix necessary for stainless?

hi all,
thanks for all the valuable information on this site i just couldn't get anywhere else. i have one question though: there is a lot of talk about argon here; is that what you use for welding stainless? When my first stainless piece started corroding (304, steel contamination, no passivation etc.) I was told by the guys in my welding store i should use trimix instead of Ar+CO2 (miller recommends that too). that stuff is really expensive, especially since i run it on a flow of 55 (what ever the units are there). I easily go through a 156 (units?) bottle in a couple of days. is that really necessary? the guys in my store argued, that with argon I would use too much heat (my miller 135 was on full blast, whereas with trimix about 85% of the max. voltage is sufficient).

thanks for your time,
julian

[RuBert]

Timix necessary for stainless?

hi all,
thanks for all the valuable information on this site i just couldn't get anywhere else. i have one question though: there is a lot of talk about argon here; is that what you use for welding stainless? When my first stainless piece started corroding (304, steel contamination, no passivation etc.) I was told by the guys in my welding store i should use trimix instead of Ar+CO2 (miller recommends that too). that stuff is really expensive, especially since i run it on a flow of 55 (what ever the units are there). I easily go through a 156 (units?) bottle in a couple of days. is that really necessary? the guys in my store argued, that with argon I would use too much heat (my miller 135 was on full blast, whereas with trimix about 85% of the max. voltage is sufficient).

thanks for your time,
julian

I haven't used trimix, but have had great results with argon. Your flow rate sounds too high. What is the reason for that, are you in a windy area. Could you tell me just a bit more about your welder and thickness of metal you are welding?

The metal can be cooled after welding to minimize the effects of carbide precipitation. That plus the right filler rod should resolve the elements of a corrosion problem that results from the welding process.

[Jay Long]

I have been welding and fabricating stainless steels, mild steels, aluminums, coppers, bronzes, galvanize etc. for many years, first I want to say is wear a respirator, when welding and grinding, especially grinding. also as to inert gas flow. If you are welding indoors, with little ventilation, then you can turn your flow meter down to say 15 cfh (cubic feet per hour) for TIG welding and maybe a little higher for MIG welding, if you get porousity(pin holes) in your weld then dial it up a little more until you get a good weld, this will save you money. Also for those who get iron oxides spots on the surface of the stainless from grinding. remember these are on the surface. find a piece of scrap stainless, and a brand new corse grinding wheel. very lightly grind a rust spot out, just until you see shine. most of that rust is in the air, and very little, if any is on the grinding wheel, if you are worried then take your grinding wheel to the scrap piece, and remove some of the grinding wheel surface, to ensure a clean grinding wheel. remove all of your rust spots in this fashion(very lightly). after that you should be able to polish off the grind spots with a flap wheel or whatever grit you use to blend it back to normal. as to 304 or 316 or 308 grades of stainless I would like to say that 304 is a industry standard, and is used in food processing more than any other stainless, it is used in fish processing plants, on every coast in the world, and salt water does not rust stainless 304. this stainless is abused, scratched, bent, broke, rewelded, and will still give years of service, so as for using it in sculptures, you bet its a winner. I will say that I have seen stainless ate up by chlorine products, such as industrial washing machines. I hope this has been helpful. Jay

[julian]

hi russ,
thanks for your answer. I have a wirefeed MIG (Miller 135, 110 Volts) and I have been welding 12 ga. (.1046, i.e. a little under 1/8") 304 laser-cut stainless. I weld in my garage with a fan under the door, so it is not too windy. I did 2 pieces like that. the second one consisted of panels with pretty intricate cut-outs causing it to distort. (See http://www.julianvossandreae.com/Work/SlideShowGallery/Seiten/collagen.html for an image). I then started dipping the pieces into water after welding an inch or so.
With Argon you mean 75:25 Ar:CO2 mix, right?

thanks,
julian

[Araich]

Hi Julian, this is potentially off topic, but I visited your site and loved it.

I suspect Russ means pure Argon with 1-2% oxygen.
I think that using Argon/CO2 75/25 with a MIG causes a colder weld, meaning that you have to really crank your machine up, and that it causes a discoloured weld along with other issues to do with the weld quality... that is the mix I use for mild steel, and also have a small MIG which I uses with 316 wire on 316 stock and the welds are not the greatest (under-powered MIG and wrong gas).
The advice I have had in the past is to use the 1.5% oxygen/argon balance gas, which is often simply called 'Argon'.

I did not read page one of this thread, but pickling etc functions to accelerate corrosion (my understanding anyway) and thus speeds the creation of a protecting oxidised layer to stainless and dissolves impurities created in the welding/finishing.

There is a commercially available neutraliser for the (nitric & hydro) acids, but I have only seen water used.

Anyway, Russ is the guy you want, his stainless work is awesome.

[RuBert]

Anyway, Russ is the guy you want, his stainless work is awesome.

Wow thanks for the nice compliment Araich. I've had great results with straight argon. It is a bit more flexible than the mixes that I've tried because I can use it to weld aluminum also.

Looking up info about gases from my supplier - Praxair, I came across this description of the gases that they carry and will post it here for reference.

Shielding Gases for Gas Tungsten Arc Welding (GTAW)

Argon
Argon, an inert gas, is the most widely used (in its pure form) as a shielding gas for Gas Tungsten Arc Welding (GTAW). Its mild thermal conductivity produces a narrow, constricted arc column which allows greater variations in arc length with minimal influence on arc power and weld bead shape. This characteristic makes it the preferred choice for manual welding. In addition, argon provides good arc starting due to its low ionization potential. This property allows argon to carry electric current well when compared to other shielding gases.

For AC welding applications, argon is preferred over helium because of its superior cleaning action, arc stability, and weld appearance. When welding thicker aluminum alloys (> 1/4"), argon is mixed with helium to enhance the thermal conductivity of the shielding gas.

While pure argon may be used for mechanized applications, depending on the base material, thickness and composition, argon-helium or argon-hydrogen blends promote higher welding travel speeds. The hotter arc characteristics of argon-helium blends also make them more suitable for welding metals with high thermal conductivity, such as copper.

Helium
Helium, also an inert gas, has high thermal conductivity and high ionization potential, which produces higher arc voltages when compared to argon for a given current setting and arc length. This produces a "hotter" arc. The increased heat input affects depth of penetration and its wider, less constricted arc column increases weld bead width.

The use of helium is generally favored over argon at the higher current levels which are used for the welding of the thicker materials, especially those having high thermal conductivity or relatively high melting temperatures. It is often used for high-speed mechanized applications.

Although argon is widely used for AC welding of aluminum, pure helium has been successfully used for DCEN mechanized welding of this material. It produces greater penetration at higher travel speeds. However, surface oxides must be cleaned from the weld joint to obtain acceptable results, since the cleaning action of the AC arc is not present. Argon-helium mixtures are widely used with AC current when welding with aluminum alloys.

The physical properties of helium definitely offer advantages in some applications. However, due to it high ionization potential, it also produces a less stable arc and a less desirable arc starting characteristic than argon. Its higher cost and higher flow rates are also factors to be considered. In some cases, an argon mixture is used for igniting the arc and pure helium is used for welding. This technique is used for DC GTAW welding of heavy aluminum.

Argon-Helium Mixtures -- Praxair's HeliStar® Blends
Each of these gases (argon and helium), as explained above, has specific advantages. Praxair's HeliStar blends (argon-helium blends) are basically used to increase the heat input to the base metal while maintaining the favorable characteristics of argon, such as arc stability and superior arc starting.

HeliStar A-75 Gas Blend
This blend is sometimes used for DC welding when it is desirable to obtain higher heat input while maintaining the good arc starting behavior of argon.

HeliStar A-50 Gas Blend
This blend is used primarily for high-speed mechanized and manual welding of nonferrous material (aluminum and copper) under 3/4 inch thick.

HeliStar A-25 Gas Blend
The speed and quality of AC welding on aluminum can be improved with this blend. It is sometimes used for manual welding of aluminum pipe and mechanized welding of butt joints in aluminum sheet and plate. The HeliStar A-25 gas blend is also used for many of the GTAW hot wire applications to increase the energy input while accommodating the high filler metal deposition rates of the process.

Argon-Hydrogen Mixtures -- Praxair's HydroStar® Gas Blends

Hydrogen is often added to argon to enhance the thermal properties of argon. Its reducing effect improves weld surface color match with 300 series stainless alloys due to reduced surface oxidation.

The higher arc voltage associated with hydrogen increases the difficulty of starting the arc. For this reason, the lowest amount of hydrogen consistent with the desired result is recommended. Additions up to 5% for manual welding and up to 10% for mechanized welding are typical.

Argon-hydrogen blends are primarily used on austenitic stainless steel (300 series), nickel, and nickel alloys. Hydrogen enhanced mixtures are not recommended to weld carbon or low-alloy steel, or any of the copper, aluminum, or titanium alloys since cracking or porosity will occur due to the absorption of hydrogen.

Argon-hydrogen blends utilized as a purge gas are successfully applied to improve root appearance when TIG welding 300 series stainless pipe.

Warning
Special safety precautions are required when mixing argon and hydrogen. Do NOT attempt to mix argon and hydrogen from separate cylinders.

Praxair's HydroStar is a hydrogen-enhanced argon-based blend which is ideally suited for general purpose GTAW of most commercially available carbon, low alloy, and stainless steels. It may be substituted for pure argon in many applications.

HydroStar H-2 and H-5 Gas Blends
These blends are used for manual welding applications. The HydroStar H-5 blend is preferred on material thicknesses above 1/16 inch. These blends are also suitable for use with GTAW when welding 300 series austenitic stainless steels and as a back purge gas on stainless steel materials.

HydroStar H-10 Gas Blend
This blend is preferred for high-speed GTAW mechanized applications on austenitic stainless steel.

HydroStar H-15 Gas Blend
This blend, which contains 15% hydrogen, is used most often for welding butt joints in stainless steel at speeds comparable to helium, and 50 percent faster than argon. The HydroStar H-15 blend is also used to increase the speed of welding 300 series stainless steel. It can be used on all thicknesses of stainless steel. Concentrations greater than 15% may cause weld metal porosity, with multi-pass applications.

HydroStar H-35 Gas Blend
It is recommended as the plasma gas with plasma arc gauging, when cutting aluminum and stainless steel and when cut quality and face appearance are critical.

Note: Oxygen and carbon dioxide are chemically reactive and should not be used with GTAW. Their oxidation potential can cause severe erosion and degradation of the tungsten electrode at arc temperatures.

[RuBert]

Here I am welding 1/4" stainless and you can see what I consider proper color (the weld was properly shielded and heat was correct) and weld zone.http://sculpture.net/images/community/weld1.jpg

Here is a very small weld further in on the same surface - a different weld and technique for a different application. http://sculpture.net/images/community/weld3.jpg

[iron ant]

Het carrt a magnet 400 series will stick to it as 304/308/316 wount.It is an old scrap yard trick.I worked for a stainless sculptor in the mid 80's and she coated hers with emron.Nasty stuff,But with opolesens ect we got great effects on intrior wall pieces.If you clear coat stainless it looks like crap most or the time.Like somebody already said shop contamination can be brutal.I am currently working on a piece that will be on the coast in California.I am builing it on a stainless table,I use its own abrasives,and you can not grind steel near it.Also Try Zirconia abrasives,or rex cut pad for right angle grinders.......Good luck...

[Louie Arce]

Hi . i have worked for two different sculptors over the past fifteen years with stainless, The first artist polished all his work to mirror finish. When polished stainless does dot need to be clear coated. He has many examples outside for 30 yeras with no rust. The only rust that shows up is from particulate iron partickles that lands on them from the enviroment.This can be cleaned of on site with no problem and it takes many years for this to happen to any degree. On the other hand if you have a grinder or texture finish it should be clear coated. The tiny partickles landing on the surface will lock on the rough surface. Good luck...and try using the 3-M regalite fiber disk for all the stainless work. They run cool and last/cut much longer than the cheap fiber disks....well worth the money..... Louie

[Ries]

I do a lot of work with stainless, and I think you are crazy to wash it down with muriatic, or nitric acid.
That stuff is nasty.

We maintain good material discipline in the shop- we only use discrete sandpaper, grinder wheels, and stainless wire brushes on ss- we write "ss" on the back to tell the difference.

Then, after it is fabricated, I have all my stainless steel electropolished.
This is a commercial process- my guys use a 4'x4'x8' tank of 120 degree acid, mostly phosphoric, with a few proprietary additives, and a 1000 amp DC power supply. This strips off the top layer of the stainless, making in shiny, so no hand polishing is needed. It also strips off the iron impurities, gunk, and dirt. It comes out shiny, clean, and pure. If I want a non shiny finish, I sand, mop disc, sandblast, wire brush, or otherwise dull the finish before electropolishing.

Then, if the piece is larger than the tank, we weld together the sub assemblies, tig, and then spot electropolish the welds afterwards. There are a few companies selling small portable electropolishing setups- these are only good for welds, not for polishing large areas, although they can be used in the field to clean small scratches, grinder marks, and other polluted areas that are rusting.
These units use a dilute phosphoric acid, and electricity, to clean the stainless. I have a friend who has been using citric acid with one of these, and he says it works great, and is less nasty to work with. I will be trying this next.
These units are expensive, as it is a specialty marketplace- they are similar to a battery charger, but higher voltage, usually around 40 volts. You could try a battery charger, but it might not have enough oomph.
Two sources are-
http://www.screenpro.net/
http://www.jwalterinc.com/walter_us/servlet/Home
Once you get into electropolishing, you will never mess with high concentrate acids again.