Blacksmiths: Are you a fustrated burner?

[suburbanartists]

I would say i'm almost up to a 50% burn rate at the coal forge. Who else consistantly works on a piece for a few hours only to leave it in the fire for a few seconds too long? Seeing those dreaded sparks shooting out of the fire is becoming way to a common occurance for me. Another piece bites the dust. No pics for this, too fustrating.

[Ries]

I use a propane forge.
While it is possible to burn a piece of steel with propane, its a lot harder.
Plus, you dont have to fuss with the fire all the time.

Mostly, I forge stainless anyway, and stainless is very hard to burn.

[evaldart]

Propane tunnel, 6 jets. 3 feet of inside space. Only hits 2350 degrees...cant burn anything. I enjoy it in the winter. I find a reason to go heavy just so I can let it run for a while. Abstractions inspired by the cold, nothing more.

[Aaron Schroeder]

Reis ......Evaldart.....Everybody...did you make your propane forges or buy them off the shelf ?

Any recommandations on a wise propane forge purchase ? Is there a brand of burners that work better than others ?

Any thoughts about propane forges in general would be greatly appreciated.

I have a big propane tank outside of the studio and an interest in heating lengthy and perhaps odd shaped pieces ( the idea of six burners sounds attractive ).

Suburbanartist........Any reason why you use a coal forge instead of propane ?

[suburbanartists]

Yeah that's what the club has that i forge at. (every monday night). The club (NJBA - New Jersey Blacksmiths Ass.) is really geared for making traditional 1600's -1900's pieces. And they like to forge weld lots of stuff so they need a good hot fire.

They don't really know what to make of me as i'm twisting perfectly good material into "what the heck is that". But they are very cool guys and love to pass on their blacksmithing knowledge to anyone willing to take it in.

We have 3 coal forges and a small propane burner (to small for my stuff)

[evaldart]

Aaron, bought mine, NC Tool Forges, just google them. They have a good selection. I've beat the hell out of mine for ten years...it always works great. I run mine off of 100 lb tanks, but if you've got a big one...so much the better.

Who the hell has tme to MAKE the damn thing when theres so much art to be done, (and product). Paid for itself a hundred times over besides the pricelessness of all the new things you'll be doing. Man, I shove anything that will fit into that damn thing.

[Ries]

I built my propane forge, but with the help of a friend, who is one of america's foremost blacksmiths, who has been developing forge designs since the late 70's. His naturally aspirated, cast refractory forges are the greatest, but not available for sale. Aside from the three or four he runs, and maybe a couple of his ex-employees, I have one of the only ones in the world.
So I am not much help for shopping advice.

A lot of people buy the NC Tool line of forges, and like them.
http://www.nctoolco.com/pages/forges1.htm

And I have heard good things lately about the Chile Forge line as well.
http://www.chileforge.com/

They sell complete forges, or just the burners.

Me, I like a forge that just works- I want a tool, not a project, so I would probably buy one of these two- but a lot of guys like to design, and build, and fiddle.

If you do want to build your own, the anvilfire site has some good info-
http://www.anvilfire.com/
and Abana sells the Rob Gunter burner plans-
http://www.bookmasters.com/abana/plans.htm
or the Ron Reil plans-
http://ronreil.abana.org/design1.shtml

As for twisting perfectly good metal into "what the heck is that"- well I do a bit of that myself.
Three doorpulls, each about 16" long, in twisted stainless steel.
Most of the original stock was 1" or 1 1/4" stainless round bar, heavily machined before hot twisting, then forged after twisting.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/rniemi/doorpulls-1.jpg

[iron ant]

Hey ya meen I am not the only one to "Melt" the end of my forgings.I went propane five years ago,little NC forge .I got the one with three burners,side holes,and large front door.I swear I am going to get a one burner for leaves,but the big door is great for larger stuff.Winter is the time to be on the anvil.

Ries,those are ausome pulls,really.Hey guys check out Kayne and Son Hardware,one of the biggest suppliers out of Ashville,NC,and there really good people.The older dude that has been forging for ever gave me some great info,and was not hesitant to share any info.

[John M]

I wouldn't say it's something I do consistently...anymore that is :D . If you want to really burn up your work quick, forge lots of bronze and copper...you'll get that same wonderful feeling of picking up your work in the fire...and watching the last 20 minutes of your life fall off in a blob of molten metal :o

Seriously tho, I've been using propane forges since '98 or so, and I love them...clean, quiet, safe. You can forge weld just fine too if you want...I have 3 different forges, the NC 3 burner whisper daddy, a Mankel 2 burner open ended atmospheric which runs very well...and hot...and an old Valley Forge single burner...Everything is fed with 20 and 30lb cylanders, and I get a lot of life out of them..You can see the NC and the Mankel in this pic

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1743/forge3hm8.jpg

The Mankel is a big help when forging larger pieces like these gate scrolls that won't fit in a box type forge

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/317/irondoors2ny7.jpg

and the little Valley and heavier NC forge works for copper and bronze pieces better

http://www.copperwork.com/images2/IMG_0710.jpg http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/649/fleur2sd1.jpg

A few other good places for forges are Centaur Forge and Pieh Tool, both have top notch equipment for serious smiths:

http://www.centaurforge.com/departments.asp?dept=146

http://www.piehtoolco.com/en-us/dept_653.html

Best Wishes,

John M

[Aaron Schroeder]

Wow .......ask a question in the sculpture community on sculpture.net .......and you get an answer!!!!!

Thanks guys.

Reis........you construct such well crafted post and those door handles look great.

John M. ............nice shop. The copper work is very well done.

All this information is fantastical. Getting my shop hot will result in a quantum leap of creative capability. It is long over due.

Next question. Since I will be devoting a sizable portion of my shop to the forge.............what about ventalation ? John M's picture shows a nice hood...........any suggestions concerning what goes above the forge. Is a steel pipe chimney enough or should I consider a stack with an exhaust fan assembly ?

Any doe's and don't that I should consider ?

[suburbanartists]

John - i see you are from Pa. Where do you get your solid copper from? what are they charging you for 1/2 round bar?

[John M]

Aaron,

If you're going to be using propane forges, I would really recommend some positive ventilation vs just a hood with a stack. I have heavy duty industrial thru wall exhuast fan mounted up under the big hood that you can't see in the photo, and it's controlled by a rheostat so I can control the air flow.

Propane forges kick out large amounts of carbon monoxide gas...that's why you want a fan. I also do a lot of arc welding in that hood, so if you are going to be welding, you might want to set up your arrangement so you can weld near/under your ventilation hood too...it's healthy and you won't stink up your shop with foul smelling welding smoke. fwiw I fabricated heavy 1/4" steel plate rolling stands for all my propane forges. That way I can roll the whloe forge, bottle and all anywhere in the shop, or outside in warm weather. You can see it in the picture...

Also, Always choose a best quality pressure regulator to regulate your gas flow between your tank and your forge, and always use teflon tape on all your brass connections because these forges run at high pressurres for propane. Get a spray bottle and fill it with water and a little dish soap, or use some solution that you can get at welding shops, and spray all your connections each time you swap out gass bottles to check for leaks.

I use my forges almost every day, and in 10+ years I've never come close to a dangerous situation yet (knock on wood)...so imo they are very safe if you observe some simple common sense methods. :)

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4150/forgecarts1my6.jpg

[crosseyedreamer]

my humble iron vaporizer........

[steponmebbbboom]

wow dreamer, that forge plate looks almost exactly like mine. Is it a Champion?

[sculptor]

john
I had heard that you never allow copper into a coke or coal forge used for iron

accurate?

rod

[suburbanartists]

Apparently in the old days if you didn't like the local blacksmith's work and you were mad enough at him you'd throw a few pennies into the coal. This copper in the forge is supposed to make forge welding very tough if not impossible. Don't know the phsyics behind it but that's the dirt from our local oldtime smiths.