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View Full Version : patinas, even for steel


JAZ
01-10-2004, 07:20 AM
After reading Araich's thread about the Aluminum coating, which I have no experience with, I thought of mentioning something else about preserving surfaces. In October, 2003 I went to a two-day workshop at the Compleat Sculptor in Manhattan with a friend. It was run by Ron Young, who produces a line of patinas for bronze, aluminum, copper and even steel. He talked about his products and the other lines of patinas available. We were able to try some out on sample plates he provided and he did some demonstrating. A lot of it was to show the amazing range of colors and effects that can be achieved with patinas, and I've since seen some pieces that were probably done that way. I am not as interested in that because sometimes it begins to feel like creating faux finishes, which I'm not interested in. What I want to know is how to protect the metal from rusting, since I mostly use mild steel, at least so far.
The bottom line thought I got from the workshop that could be potentially be useful is that Ron Young said that if you use his wax over whatever patina or coating you use, then just maintain the wax over time, the surface would last forever outdoors. There are waxes made by several companies, but his is so far the only one that has UV protectors and in the waxes made for steel, rust inhibitors. By recoating the wax every six months, then removing it and applying fresh wax every two years the patina would not be affected by weathering.
His waxes also come in colors. They can be puchased online at www.compleatsculptor.com
This may sound like a commercial, but it's not. I have no connection to Ron Young or the Compleat Sculptor (which is a store for sculpture supplies) at all.
Also, one suggestion he had is that when you sell a piece intended for outdoors, think about trying to get the buyer to agree to a maintenance contract for you. You would do the wax maintenance for a certain amount of money. A covenience for the buyer, assurance for you that yur piece would be treated well and a little extra income guaranteed over time. Sounds like a good thought if the sculpture is located sometwhere you are willing to go, or if you can hire an assistant to do it for you.

drthulium
01-12-2004, 12:48 AM
After reading Araich's thread about the Aluminum coating, which I have no experience with, I thought of mentioning something else about preserving surfaces. In October, 2003 I went to a two-day workshop at the Compleat Sculptor in Manhattan with a friend. It was run by Ron Young, who produces a line of patinas for bronze, aluminum, copper and even steel.

Ha Ha Ha ... I just replied to that thread before I read this, and I mentioned Ron's website. Ron is a great guy to talk to about patination, he is a professor at Calstate-Long Beach and a practacing sculptor. The faux finishes give me som consternation, on one hand, they're fake, and that bugs me. If I want some to look like it is made out of copper, I'll make it out of copper. ON THE OTHER HAND, there are a lot of shapes and forms that are quite difficult to make out of copper, and if the sculpture is the desired shape and surface, does it matter how it got their? An art professor of mine said, it's avant garde, there are no rules! A compelling argument :)

fritchie
01-12-2004, 09:25 PM
I certainly don't want to knock Ron Young - He has a great name in patinas, and I’m sure everything in the two posts above is true. HOWEVER, just think about the requirement of having to renew wax every six months and remove and replace it every two years. Almost every finishing product for outdoor sculpture makes similar claims. Just how realistic is it that a purchaser would do this?

I’m not sure where it stands today, but a U. S. national movement to survey and then preserve or renovate outdoor sculpture began collecting data and doing preservation work about 4 - 5 years ago, and locally the information was appalling. Most public bronzes hadn’t been touched in thirty to fifty years or more. That’s real life!

Sulfides are by far the most stable films on copper or bronze, but they are limited in color. Using cupric and/or ferric nitrate in addition to sulfide (liver of sulfur) increases the range of color while retaining excellent stability, with or without waxing. Waxing gives the surface a liquid quality and increases the depth and clarity of color, so I strongly recommend it for that reason without reference to preservation issues.

I have never used anything but these three materials, as I expect that the sculptures will have to endure abuse over time. Caveat facit (or whatever the correct Latin)!

JAZ
01-14-2004, 08:36 PM
I certainly don't want to knock Ron Young - He has a great name in patinas, and I’m sure everything in the two posts above is true. HOWEVER, just think about the requirement of having to renew wax every six months and remove and replace it every two years. Almost every finishing product for outdoor sculpture makes similar claims. Just how realistic is it that a purchaser would do this?

I’m not sure where it stands today, but a U. S. national movement to survey and then preserve or renovate outdoor sculpture began collecting data and doing preservation work about 4 - 5 years ago, and locally the information was appalling. Most public bronzes hadn’t been touched in thirty to fifty years or more. That’s real life!

Sulfides are by far the most stable films on copper or bronze, but they are limited in color. Using cupric and/or ferric nitrate in addition to sulfide (liver of sulfur) increases the range of color while retaining excellent stability, with or without waxing. Waxing gives the surface a liquid quality and increases the depth and clarity of color, so I strongly recommend it for that reason without reference to preservation issues.

I have never used anything but these three materials, as I expect that the sculptures will have to endure abuse over time. Caveat facit (or whatever the correct Latin)!

Your thoughtful response is very useful. Actually, I have yet to use any Ron Young product except for the metal cleaner (got a free sample at the workshop!) and so was intending simply to pass on information that I had given to me by Ron. I have been doing steel, which is a whole other animal from bronze. Someday I would love to try bronze too. I've had a few really small things cast in aluminum and bronze but haven't put anything at all on them so far.