Big art is not necessarily good art.

[Araich]

We had a big table fork in exhibition here at Sculpture by the Sea a few years back... the only limit with it as a sculpture I could see was that it was a table fork, made big.

That alone failed to make it significantly sculptural, for me, though it possibly made it art.

[sculptorsam]

Here's a good link for info on the work of Claus Oldenburg: http://hcmagazine.com/magazine.cfm/content/articles/0,3,0000212,00.html

I've always liked the giant clothespin. One important detail is that the sculpture is not of any *particular clothespin design. It is a distillation of many designs into an "idealized" clothespin. In that way, it is sortof like the Platonic Ideal of a clothespin. Implying that even the most basic forms have a value and weight to them.

Sam

[Araich]

.... and that Oldenburg was the originator of oversized familiar objects.

Is "wow that's big" enough sometimes?

PS I think Mother (?) is almost standing on my house!

[rderr.com]

I've a friend that tells a joke about "'big". A 12 inch cock is like a 12 foot wardrobe, you might admire, but, few have a place to put it. There has been a recent call for submissions for "Immodest Proposals: Unreasonable Public Art Projects for Houston". Have a look at my proposal.

Art is provocative. Always

[ALH]

All kidding aside, there really is a great deal of power in large scale. The clothes pin and other work like it (representative - very big) always remind me of a trip to Universal Studios I had when I was a kid. They had these over scale objects for some sci fi show about a shrunken family lying around. Visitors could interact with huge pens and Styrofoam boulders - it was great fun. Those movie-sculptures probably still have some effect on me today.

I find oversized and miniature things fascinating. It would be hard to screw up a work where impressive presence is a given - mind you if it is ill conceived it will be ill conceived in a big and very public way.

That's the problem with claiming a public space - monstrously large sculptures cannot be avoided and that puts quite a bit of pressure on the artists and those acquiring the art. After all, in the case of the hideous Mother example, Araich has to live there.

If the Poseidon work is completed and I am passing through that city I would have to go see it. I’m sure I would be walking around it for quite a while all corn fed and slack jawed by the overwhelming experience.

And yeah, I do like those roadside attraction sculptures as well - a guilty pleasure.

[Araich]

Alan, that's quite profound, and I completely agree.

And I too love the giant banana etc. because it's clear that we all know how stupid they are, and that is the fun of it.

Just cast your eyes over the giant potatoe, and tell me it hasn't changed the way you feel. Let alone the terrible giant koala!

[ALH]

Here is an old question, from the sixties, slightly restrung...If you placed the Oldenburg clothespin at the side of the highway (near gas, toilets, regional info booth and a restaurant) would the clothespin’s higher craft be enough to set it apart.

I think 'the frame' is, like scale, another element that makes a huge difference in how art is perceived.

[sculptor]

Here's a good link for info on the work of Claus Oldenburg: http://hcmagazine.com/magazine.cfm/content/articles/0,3,0000212,00.html
Sam

The story in Chicago is that "his original macquette for the giant bat had a couple baseballs with it".

rod

[jwebb]

To my eye the Giant Clothespin actually has some beautiful form to it - as do small clothespins for that matter. Old, used wooden clothespins have that quality of artifacts, old tools, etc. Also, check out the background setting in that photo. What a magnificent site for a sculpture.

[fritchie]

I'm really not sure where I stand on this size issue. I always have liked the Oldenburg works, and after all, they are 3D versions of Warhol's soup cans. Basically, this was Warhol’s innovation. It’s true that if anyone except a recognized artist made them, they might be considered in the category of these other examples posted - kitsch. This discussion gets to the heart of one of the major art questions of the 20th century. Is something art just because an artist or a critic says it is?

[ALH]

This thread is getting to be much like the 'art vs. craft' thread, what qualifies to be art.

"Is something art just because an artist or a critic says it is?"

Yes. The artist gets to make that call but the whether or not its good art is another matter, over which the artist gets no say. If you don't trust me on this check out the latest 'rumpled bed in gallery' at you local public institution and the public interest, or lack thereof, in it. Sculpture used to be a human shaped blob in the town square, now it's likely to be a video camera taped to a dogs back.

The roadside attraction pieces are art, no question there for me. They are original and have no purpose beyond esthetics. Do you like 'The Big Clam', does it bore you or do you hate it - personal taste in the end.

[fritchie]

The roadside attraction pieces are art, no question there for me. They are original and have no purpose beyond esthetics.

Don’t you think most might be primarily advertisements?

[ALH]

Whether they function, or were planned as advertisements (normally for a place/region/gasbar) is a moot point I think. What I was trying to do (ham handedly apparently) in the other thread was to point out that what the larger city was trying to do with it's very big sculpture was simply a larger and more sophisticated effort towards the same end: advertise the place, communicate the spirit of the place/people, and put up something 'way cool'. Isn't that what Lady Liberty does? I will grant you , however, that the resources, abilities and sensibilities only seem to increase with a larger population.

Oldenburg's gift, for me, is that he is able to combine the childlike honesty of 'Mac the Moose from Moosejaw', with the sophisticated reading of the culture found in '32 Campbell's Soup Cans'.

[anne (bxl)]

I always have liked the Oldenburg works, and after all, they are 3D versions of Warhol's soup cans. Basically, this was Warhol’s innovation.

I also have liked Oldenburg works for years but always though they were the heritage of Marcel Duchamp bottle rank.

Question of size for me is mainly question of scale and not question of quality.
An Oldenburg work in your garden will affect your reference of appreciation (disproportion). Lady Liberty is scaled to be view from far and the building place as been smartly choosen. As the chapel sixtine from michelangelo has been painted knowing how high the ceiling was. We can't just simply overscale a small piece. To work big we have to respect the physical rules of the perception and the surrounding proportions.

[fritchie]

I also have liked Oldenburg works for years but always though they were the heritage of Marcel Duchamp bottle rank.


Oldenburg's work doubtless draws from Duchamp as well as Warhol, but I think it is closer to Warhol. In art books at least, Duchamp comes across as suggesting the public at large is a group of idiots. Could be, he’s right??

[fritchie]

Whether they function, or were planned as advertisements (normally for a place/region/gasbar) is a moot point I think. What I was trying to do (ham handedly apparently) in the other thread was to point out that what the larger city was trying to do with it's very big sculpture was simply a larger and more sophisticated effort towards the same end: advertise the place, communicate the spirit of the place/people, and put up something 'way cool'. Isn't that what Lady Liberty does? I will grant you , however, that the resources, abilities and sensibilities only seem to increase with a larger population.

Oldenburg's gift, for me, is that he is able to combine the childlike honesty of 'Mac the Moose from Moosejaw', with the sophisticated reading of the culture found in '32 Campbell's Soup Cans'.

I think you've made a good point, and it's clear but does need to be appreciated more. “Art” in the big cities and expensive galleries is part of the same activity that you describe as taking place all over. And it all has a distinct motivation - expression of pure joy by a creative soul, physical expression of an intellectual concept such as liberty, drawing of attention to a place or thing by advertisement, or any other of a wide array of possibilities.