Opinions on a Belt/Disc sanding combo

[cheesepaws]

I'm going to order a disc/belt sanding combo (stationary machine) this afternoon and I am leaning toward one of the following:

1) Powermatic 2HP/3Ph 230V

2) Powermatic 1.5 HP/1Ph 115V

3) Jet 1.5 HP/1Ph 115V

All are 12" disc and 6" x 48" belt.

Both Powermatics are the same price - Jet isn't much cheaper. I have heard that the Jets are on the "low end" of the Powermatic line - but I can't really see a difference. This tool is for a college sculpture classroom. We are wired up to use the 3PH - but I worry a bit about overkill. Opinions?

[cheesepaws]

I really like the color of the Powermatic tools! :)

[Ries]

Even though they are both owned by the same Swiss holding company, I think the Powermatics are a bit better than the Jet.

Some, but certainly not all, Powermatic tools are still made in the USA, while the vast majority of Jet stuff is Chinese, with a sprinkling of Taiwan, Korea, and even euro sourced machines as well.

I have had the Jet in my shop for about 12 years now- and we work it pretty hard. Probably not as hard as students do, but I usually have a couple of 20 somethings working for me, and they are pretty tough on tools.
The machine itself has held up well- the weak point is the cast pot metal knob and locking gib that locks the disc table tilt at any given angle- I have replaced a couple of those over the years.

Overall, though, the Jet is a pretty sturdy machine, and we run mostly stainless on it, and push it pretty hard. So I can recommend it.

The big trick, though, is to use the right abrasive. With either machine, the belts are easy enough to change, but the discs are kind of a pain- you need to scrap off the old disc, and, usually, clean off the glue that remains on the aluminum disc, before putting on a new one. If you are using cheap, all purpose abrasive, you will find yourself doing this all too often.

If you are running wood, then its not such a big deal, but with metal, I would really recommend getting Klingspor CS411 discs, which are a blue, alumina zirconina abrasive. They really last a long time- I use this type of abrasive on ALL my sanders- belt, disc, or angle grinder. Its great for any kind of metal, and lasts and lasts. I use 50 grit on the belt disc, and it gives an amazingly fine finish, but you can really grind away significant amounts of material quickly, too.
Klingspor abrasives are very reasonably priced, if you get an account, which I would imagine the school could do- in minimum order quantities, they are usually cheaper than home depot or lowes, and ten times better.

[Aaron Schroeder]

I would consider each of the options you listed as a luxury.

The belt/disc sander is a vital studio tool, one that your students may very well purchase after graduation. I did and I purchased a Craftsman with an eight inch disc and one inch belt. At $200 it was a major purchase at the time. Still use it almost everyday.

Even though a larger machine is a must have for a school environment, I'd recommend including a smaller more affordable sander to the curriculum so that students can get a feel for the tool that they are most likely to use once they get out in the real world. The cheap tools.

Better yet would be a home made sander that shows students that they don't have to let a lack of money get in the way of aquiring the means to get their work done.

School shops are great and learning to use good tools is a must but don't forget to teach the tools that fledgling post grads will more than likely use on the way to building their own shops. They may have to employ cheap hand tools for years before they can afford what they enjoyed and took for granted in school. Learning to use a sawzall is as important as a plasma cutter.

[cheesepaws]

Thanks Ries!

This tool will be exclusively for wood. I am replacing an older Rockwell model that will head into the metal shop. I'll look into those abrasives.

[Ries]

I guess in a one man shop, where you baby things, Craftsman tools are still an option.
Me, I wrote, in 6" tall letters, on my shop wall, WAAAY back in about 1980,
"I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER CRAFTSMAN POWER TOOL"

And I havent, either.

This was after destroying, by simply using, a whole string of em, including a craftsman 6x48 belt/ 9" disc sander. In almost every case, it was the combination of self tapping screws in plastic parts, and cast pot metal, that caused them to croak after a few months.

As far as students or employees using craftsman tools- I would predict the lifespan in weeks. Kids are really hard on things, especially when they didnt pay for em.

As for the abrasives- Klingspor makes some great ones for wood, as well. The alumina zirconia I mentioned is for metals, not wood. But, in general, I have found the Klingspor stuff to be the best available, and at very reasonable prices.

[Aaron Schroeder]

Well it's the end of the day, what did you order ?

[cheesepaws]

errr...ended up watching the end of "Highlander" and making dinner for my kids. Perhaps tomorrow.:p

[StevenW]

Buy new office furniture and let them sand by hand so they'll appreciate it more. :)

[evaldart]

No brainer. If its in the budget...get the powermatic 2 hp. I've killed the Craftsman (2 yrs) and the Jet 6 yrs) and am presently torturing a Central Machinery 12 disc (no belt at all). And it will be gone soon enough. The list for new tools is so long I dont know whats coming next. ABSOLUTE NECESSITY will decide (but I want a gasoline cutter).

The kids are sissys mostly...afraid of the tools and not hard on them at all. Think about what YOU will be doing to it. And do it.

[Aaron Schroeder]

I like Evaldarts notion of a 12 inch machine with no belt. In a school setting it makes sense to seperate the two. That way you don't have two student on one machine at the same time. Though not as dangerous as a tablesaw, sanders can do some damage.

On a side note, I lucked into a nice stache of double sided adhesive sheets years ago. The stuff work great for adhering abrasive stock to wheels. Have no idea where you can get it. Keep your eyes open, it's the best stuff.

[cheesepaws]

Even though a larger machine is a must have for a school environment, I'd recommend including a smaller more affordable sander to the curriculum so that students can get a feel for the tool that they are most likely to use once they get out in the real world. The cheap tools.

School shops are great and learning to use good tools is a must but don't forget to teach the tools that fledgling post grads will more than likely use on the way to building their own shops. They may have to employ cheap hand tools for years before they can afford what they enjoyed and took for granted in school. Learning to use a sawzall is as important as a plasma cutter.

I couldn't agree more and I make a point of demo-ing most hand power tools to show how they function similarly to their larger stationary brethren. I am careful, however, to avoid "cheap" tools or ones prone to misalignment from a few scant uses. The shop hand belt sander is a $300, 4-inch Porter Cable - probably still not affordable for most new grads, but likely to last for more than a semester. If they learn on this tool they can easily baby their own cheaper one and get similar results. There is something also to be said for fostering - if not brand loyalty - loyalty to quality equipment as part of a student experience.

I guess in a one man shop, where you baby things, Craftsman tools are still an option.
Me, I wrote, in 6" tall letters, on my shop wall, WAAAY back in about 1980,
"I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER CRAFTSMAN POWER TOOL".

A few years back I did some major outfitting for my basement studio from Sears (big sale and I had a relative that worked there and got an additional discount) picked up a 1 HP table saw, table top band saw, a flux core welding machine, 8" chop saw, and a few hand tools. It got me through to the next show but didn't last much beyond. There are times when cheap tools just keep going and going - but those seem pretty rare to me and not worth the stress of endless adjustment/modification/repair for what is basically built as disposable.

Think about what YOU will be doing to it. And do it.

Good point. I just hate waiting on our electricians to drop new power. The spot is wired for 115V - and i am anxious to start using this new tool. Even so - I am starting to lean toward the 2HP.