Rust and the customer!

[dkw1972]

HI all, well sales of my interior sculptures has slowed down but i've noticed how sales of outdoor pieces have continued for some other sculptors over here so i've been busy working on outdoor pieces too.

I've gone down my usual route of working with bare mild steel, and i've dropped a few clear coats of clear acrylic lacquer on them (as the other sculptors have also done).

My question is: we all know that the steel will rust over time, which could be quickly or slowly depending on where it's sited etc etc, but should I make any reference to the fact the piece will rust, within the sales literature or paperwork supplied with the piece, or should I say nothing?

[raspero]

It depends on what sort of long term reputation you want in the sculpture field. I reveal any possible problems with, or potential changes in, my sculpture, even to the extent, once, of not selling a very complex indoor waterfall to a Hollywood star because I knew that ultimately she would not have been satisfied.

R

[cheesepaws]

If you are compelled to mention it - just make sure you use the phrase "annual conservation" rather than "regular maintenance" and you should be fine.

[evaldart]

I intend for it all to rust. I often "season" a work for up to a year before showing it. A quick wipe down with the Penetrol solution befor a show gives it a natural sheen. It will never rot-away (in your lifetime) if your steel is thick enough. If you work in thin material...then you may have problems.

Many of the ones who do the thin and light outdoor stuff work in cor-ten or non ferrous. No issues then.

[raspero]

I like cheesepaws terminology: "annual conservation". A lot of life is in how you present it.

R

[jOe~]

just make sure you use the phrase "annual conservation" rather than "regular maintenance" Not bad, but collectively we should be able to improve on that. Like: One of the bonuses of naturally aging ferrous metal is that the annual conservation becomes a ritual for renewing your relationship with your art piece. The bonding experience has the double benefit of deepening your spirit as you intuit new deeper meanings of the art while you nourish and preserves its pores with Penetrol." Next.

[GlennT]

jOe, the used car salesman:

"This genuine 1973 Chevy Vega has the rare distinction of being composed of compressed rust, enabling you to bond with it in a more than ordinary way as you daily leave a trail of scattered dropped parts on the road behind you. You will note that in the trunk we have stocked it with some of the more useful parts, rebuilt from evaldart's boneyard, so that you can reattach these should you find yourself on the side of the road without, say, a starter motor, an oil pan, or a drive shaft. So why not increase the exhilaration factor when you drive. Hop in, tune in, and drop parts!"

[The Forge]

Penetrol is an additive for paint not a clear coating for metal. I don't know why it is used that way. Maybe because it is readily available. Use a product called Everbrite, it is made specifically to protect metal from rusting and fading. They even have a coating to protect against salt water exposure. Check out their website. www.everbrite.com for product. 'Annual conservation' won't be necessary.

[dkw1972]

Thanks for your replies, I intend for most of mine to rust too Eval, although that's not gone down too well with many people yet as they like them shiny shiny :-(.

This piece is sitting outside "seasoning" and is just turning shades of orange in places which looks mighty cool!

[dkw1972]

These 2 are ones I made at the weekend and have had a few coats of clear acylic lacquer on them. Personally I want the lacquer to break down and for nature to take it's course, but people who have seen them would prefer them to stay shiny.



On the pricing scale these are really low end, around the £50 mark but I still don't want someone coming back to me complaining that I never told them that metal will rust!

I'm really not good at wording things but should I be including some paperwork that explains that the steel has been coated with a lacquer but that it will break down over time and that they should check it annually and recoat as neccesary, however if they would like nature to take it's course they need take no action?

[raspero]

I went to the Everbrite website and all I could find was a huge electric sign company with lots of plastic signs for sale. ???

R

[dkw1972]

Lol I just found that too, try .net instead of .com, that does the trick!

[grommet]

I'm really not good at wording things but should I be including some paperwork that explains that the steel has been coated with a lacquer but that it will break down over time and that they should check it annually and recoat as neccesary, however if they would like nature to take it's course they need take no action?

Perhaps if you sold some shiny and some rusty you could then include the appropriate upkeep on each. "To maintain the sculpture's current appearance..."

[evaldart]

Penetrol preserves the RUST finish better than anything I've found. Deepens it, enrichens, attaches to the particles, uses your rust as aggregate. Who cares what it was designed for? (must use the oil base version).
I'll give the Everbrite a shot if I can get some...but every clear coat I've ever tried has always failed. We all know here that NO clear finish on mild steel outside will last very long. You just have to be fine with that. Besides, form is everything...surface simply needs to stay out of the way.

[dkw1972]

I posted this link a while ago and as " The Forge" who replied stated it's intended for tooling, but it also states it lasts up to 2 years, so i'm still tempted to try it!

http://shieldtechnology.co.uk/toolca...odworking.html

[The Forge]

Sorry for the address mistake. To me, the decision is up to the artist. If the artist wants the piece to develop a rich rust coat, why coat it at all? It should be sold that way. The buyer should appreciate it that way. To satisfy the 'shiny' buyer, I make 'shiny' coated pieces for inside use only. But, even inside, metal will show some signs of rust over time. Even stainless shows some changes. Most 'steels' will rust or corrode over time. The nice part of Corten steel, which was developed to cut maintenance for outside structures like bridges, is that it develops a very dense rust coat that after time stops 'rusting'.

[dkw1972]

HI Forge, so in selling a piece of your work to the "shiny" buyer, do you state that it will show signs of rust over time?

[jOe~]

So, dkw1972, why wouldn't you "state that it will show signs of rust over time"? That is the real question. Answer that for your self, please. If you can't then start with that question.

[circusguy]

A friend of mine loves this stuff:

http://www.por15.com/

Guaranteed for 20 years, Never saw that before.

[PTsideshow]

Glad to see they have added some thing other than silver or black. The biggest problem is that their fall back position when it rusts is that you the applier didn't follow their directions and use their prep products. And oh by the way do you have your receipt ;). They also claim that up can build up missing metal in holes in say the battery tray with many thin coats. For car truck chassis work it looks good and if it so good why do they have a product called chassis black :D
Not a great finish for art work inside or out! IMHO

[dkw1972]

Hi jOe, as I said at the start "we all know that the steel will rust over time, which could be quickly or slowly depending on where it's sited etc etc".

So it's not a case of " why wouldn't you "state that it will show signs of rust over time" to me, because i'm working on the assumption that it's common sense that it will rust in time.

But am I right in making that assumption or do I need to spell it out!?

[jOe~]

i'm working on the assumption that it's common sense that it will rust in time.

But am I right in making that assumption or do I need to spell it out!? Then I don't get why you "dropped a few clear coats of clear acrylic lacquer on them". Why not show them in their full, final rusty state? How are they "supposed " to look? Shiny or rusty?

[Thatch]

For a quick rust just pee on them right after you finish welding. I used to rust pieces that were going inside and to make sure I got rust real fast I just peed on them. Works every time. I would hose them down and very lightly sand the steel to make sure the surface was fairly even before bringing them in.

Thatch

[The Forge]

In the past, sculpture was created out of permanent media such as stone, bronze and fired clay. But, we can only make that observation because certain ones have lasted so long. Even at that they show the effects of weathering like bronze gets a patina. The artists who work using bronze expect that to happen. Now that we are using steel as a medium, it has brought up this topic of effects of longevity. As before we have a choice to make: use a steel that will last a long time without rusting like Stainless; use Corten because it will develop a beautiful red/brown 'rust' coat after a few years; use steel and let it rust into its colors or coat it with a clear coat. This decision is, of course, up to the artist and their conception of the final piece and its longevity in the state that it was sold. If you are going to be concerned that it will develop some 'rust' spots, then prep the metal properly and use a good quality of paint that will last outside. I have a few inside pieces that were painted 25 years ago and still look new. My outside painted pieces, are showing rust spots of course. But, in order for me to do the proper repaint, they will need to be sandblasted and then painted. To tell the truth, I have never brought up any maintenance issues to the buyer.

[iron ant]

Everbrite works excelent on aluminum and faded painted steel,but on bare rusted metal,I would not give it long.Duron used to amke a clear coat called xm1 surface primmer in clear and white,The clear would hold up several years in the SE,but I don't think they make it anymore?You can heat the steel and wax it with varous "hillbilly" mixtures,actually works quite well,but will look more black or brown depending on the wax color.I am fabricating and forging a 12 foot steel Indian for Murray County High School,home of the Indians of course,and I am wanting the dark rust finish,as the school is white so it should pop off nice.I might try EV's trick,but I don't have a year to age it?Any sujestions on treating it to rust after I blast it?I usually work in Stainless,and I forggot hoe fun and easy steel is to work with....IA

[The Forge]

Iron Ant you are right. I would never use 'Everbrite' on my rusty pieces because they are supposed to be rusty. To clear coat them would spoil the natural rusty surface patina.
I use 'Everbrite' on areas that I grind to bare metal and want to enhance the grinder marks and make the areas glisten. 'Everbrite' supplies specific instructions on how to prepare the surface for the coating. A solvent is used to removes any oils or contaminants that would keep the coating from properly adhering to the steel. If I plan to paint the piece, I power wire brush or glass bead blasted the surface to prepare for a primer coat and paint.