My teacher

[Roy]

the piece I have in wax now is a mask like bust of my father that is supported by a left arm and hand. The elbow will rest on a bronze paper, with the heel of the thumb holding the face up.just below the left ear. The right hand, with forearm, will rest in a writing position on that same paper. It holds a short pencil, sharpened with his pocket knife. (that was part of his personality) The over all affect of the floating, down turned, face is of a seated person drawing in consentration. I have the face (shown), both hands and the pencil in wax now. I have to do the paper with a one inch stud coming out to fit into the left elbow for welding. If you look closely, you can see the square hole under the left ear where a stud on the left hand thumb will insert and be welded.

[jwebb]

A fine portrait, Roy. This kind of composition, with parts of the figure rendered and parts not, is a good use of the tensile strength that bronze provides. It's problematic, I think, if it's going to be seen from other views besides head on. Do you plan to wall mount this?

[Roy]

This kind of composition, with parts of the figure rendered and parts not, is a good use of the tensile strength that bronze provides.

Hi Jwebb - Thanks for the compliment. You are right about the limited view when completed. I made the face and hands aproximently life size, so the observer could relate to him as I did growing up, I planned to have a small table with two empty chairs pulled away a little from opposite sides. On one side sits the invisible body of my father. The chair on the opposite side is for the grand and great-grand children to sit in while being shown an explination of something in life. The standing observers could gather around three of four sides. The 4th view would not work from behind him, so his chair would back up against a wall.

I know it looks a little strange to see him with his tongue out, but when he had his head down consentrating on drawing, his mouth would slack, and his tongue would show.

I didn't think things through very well, because the composition will take up too much room for the average home. Maybe the table and chairs could be wrought iron, and outside up agaisnt a bush in some future relatives yard.

It's been fun anyway.

[jwebb]

I think this kind of conception is, strictly speaking, more pictorial than sculptural, as your drawing suggests. But that's no reason not to do it. I tried to combine wood carving and cast bronze in a piece once, where I carved a nice piece of black walnut into a "figurative abstract" form that seemed kind of to suggest a pelvis, so I then built up wax sheets into portions of a female torso, that wound over and around the wood. The idea was to then cut off these wax sections, cast them in bronze, and weld them back together around the walnut. The bronze sections were kind of similar to yours in that sheet-like quality, and kind of floated in space so both their outside and inside surfaces were visible. But I had not thought the process through either, and when I tried to weld the bronze pieces back together I couldn't adequately protect the wood from the heat, and burned it badly, and the carbon screwed up the welds, which I reworked to the point that the bronze became brittle, and the welds cracked, and ....anyway, it still sits in the corner of my studio. And I still like looking at it, but I chalk it up to something I just had to get out of my system. Not to say that your piece won't be entirely successful; I just see some problems there based on my own experience. On the other hand, Fritchie has shown a couple of pieces; one which is a full figure leaning back against a rail, only the rail is completely absent. And it is very effective and beautiful. So this kind of thing can work if it's done just right. The important thing is to pursue that image! Good luck.

[Roy]

....I chalk it up to something I just had to get out of my system....

Hi again jwebb - Thank you for your honest feedback. You are right that I would have many unforseen problems. The bronze paper would have to be thick enough to not bend under the weight of the left arm and head, but still thin enought to look like paper. (counter sink?) There might be a ballance problem too. and your right that the positions would have to be just right to suggest a missing body. I doubt that I will ever finish this project, but it is good to get it out of my system. That's what I had to do with by "Into Nothingness" vision I mentioned on 1-25-2004 in my Introduction posts. Once I shared it, I could let it go.

Congradulations on your invitation to show, maybe you will change your mind if you can at least break even.

[fritchie]

Roy - Sorry I got into this a little late, but I like your wax of the head very much. I’m sure you know of the difficulties of going from wax to bronze, some of which jwebb just described. Essentially, the bronze can become very mechanical in appearance, no matter how good the wax, because of the difficulties and imperfections always encountered in casting and finishing metal.

All the same, don’t be discouraged - give it a try. That’s the way people learn, and if you are persistent and inventive you may get what you want. Good Luck! with this project that obviously is very meaningful in your life.

[Gdog]

Roy I believe you have a fine piece in the works! I also think based on my experience that piece is still a baby and can go in many directions. If I had the piece that far along and had the wax to do it[ which would be the only reason]the wax to do it, I'd go with the arms and torso [arms on the table that is, let the guess work be under it!] however because it's yer dad,maybe a traditional style bust on a pedistal in your foyer would be great! that is only a thought I'll be glad to see where it eventually goes[ I just know this piece could still take any direction.I intend to do a traditional style bust of my wife's grandfather who at 97 is the greatest man I know, sharp as a tack,and very worthy of a bust as I'm sure your dad is.

I just want to say thanx fer the welcome, I tried to reply initially and had trouble, I think your work at this stage is very good. I like it!

I made a table top pedistal for rodin's " Le Penseur" [a small copy ] out of Grey Palermo marble and it looked sweet with the bronze!! thanx again,Gdog!

[Stephen Casey]

Roy I like this concept a lot. I feel there are no problems with the concept, just little technicallities, details of how to get where you already wanted it to be.

This project is worth a lot of effort. I also feel that this piece should be completed as soon as possible. So others in your family can feel his presence as you certainly do.

This project fires my imagination and I hope I don't go to far in detailing some of how I see this in completion.

I wouldn't put him up against a wall. I would lean more toward the square or long dinning room table with the bust and arm or arms you already have in mind. As for the paper I would think a real newspaper section or what ever he liked to study should be under it. No laminating or anything like that, just change it out every week or so. Maybe a wrinkled smaller brass apaper underneath. Discreate square stock supporting the arms rapping around the edge and even with a pole going straight down through his chair. Also I see violet and gold man-made flowers filling the space of his torso. And also perhaps some Ivy or Colases. Low maintenance plants but obviously alive.

If his back was up against a wall I would think the scene would look crouded. His sitting facing the wall and a small chair and reading table would make more sence to me, with chairs to the left and right.

But I very much like the idea of his being in the open of the room. Just a permanent quite essence taking up that space. I would think an oblong or rectangular table. Two chairs to his left and two to his right. And one on the other end for the present head of the house.

[Roy]

...don’t be discouraged - give it a try. That’s the way people learn, and if you are persistent and inventive you may get what you want. Good Luck! with this project that obviously is very meaningful in your life.
Thanks for your encouragment. I'm really not discouraged, just aware that I won't have the time or money to finish the project in the foundry. The class costs several hundred dollars just to use the foundry. If I ever get enough money, I may have a regular foundry do it. Thanks again for the kind words.

[Roy]

... I'd go with the arms and torso ...maybe a traditional style bust on a pedistal ......this piece could still take any direction.I intend to do a traditional style bust of my wife's grandfather who at 97 is the greatest man I know, sharp as a tack,and very worthy of a bust ...I made a table top pedistal for rodin's " Le Penseur" [a small copy ] out of Grey Palermo marble and it looked sweet with the bronze!!

Hi Gdog - Thank you for your encouragement. As I mentioned to fritch, I may still have it done, and I may make some changes as you sugest. When you make the bust of your wifes grandfather, will you model it or actually sculpt it out of stone?

[jwebb]

Roy,

Here's an artist who used a similar approach, and made it work quite well. This is Etruscan, from the first half of the 5th Century, BC. It's in the Hermitage Museum in St. Petersburg.

Joe

[Gdog]

Id say go with the flow you'll know what to do, your much further than I am as in, you've gotton the most complex part complete the facial expression and likeness of your dad, the rest will work itself out, it usually seems to.
sounds like your operat'in on a shoe string budget, I am,I really like working clay, thing is though I've destroyed a few pieces because I wanted the clay'[Not to mention not having any idea what to do next!] I have a piece going now and I'm eye'in up a rhino I'm modeling for a verbal commission.I don't use pointers or any thing,working the clay helps me become familiar with the rhino, The rhino has built up 1/6 inch of stone dust I'll have to scrape! I want to show it to the woman first, to make sure it's what she had in mind. I'd like to cast the bust to answer your question! I'm drawn to the bronze bust over stone. I,ve done some heads in stone stylistic though.

I'm having slides made into prints so I can scan them, so you can see a few things I've done done,I jump around a lot so everything else is in the works, some close to completion. always starting new stuff. c-ya roy good luck man!

[Roy]

...This project is worth a lot of effort... So others in your family can feel his presence as you certainly do. This project fires my imagination and I hope I don't go too far in detailing some of how I see this in completion.
Thank you Stephen. Your ideas have fired my imagination too. I think that if I can ever get the basic composition completed, I could expiriment with different positions and places. If there was enough room, the long table with chairs would be an interesting tribute. The idea of a living plants filling the void of the missing torso also offers lots of possibilities toward a memorial. To be practicle, no one in the family has a house anywhere big enough do that. Maybe some future relative will get rich and have a house that can. Mean while, I hope to get a foundry to do the pour of the basic composition. You are right about it being too crowded against a wall or on a shelf. I think there has to be enough room for the invisable body.

[Roy]

Roy,

Here's an artist who used a similar approach, and made it work quite well. This is Etruscan, from the first half of the 5th Century, BC. It's in the Hermitage Museum in St. Petersburg.
Hi Joe- Thanks for the thumb nail. I guess there is nothing really new under the sun. My composition would have a lot of stress on the two welds, because of the offset weight of the head. I may still try to finish the "paper" in wax, and have a foundry do the pour of all 4 peices. (5 counting the pencil)

I would like to see the work you had accepted for the exhibition.

[Roy]

...I have a piece going now and I'm eye'in up a rhino I'm modeling for a verbal commission.I don't use pointers or any thing,working the clay helps me become familiar with the rhino, The rhino has built up 1/6 inch of stone dust I'll have to scrape!...I'd like to cast the bust ...I'm drawn to the bronze bust over stone. I,ve done some heads in stone stylistic though.
I'm having slides made into prints so I can scan them, so you can see a few things I've done...
Hi Gdog- I'm anxious to see your prints. I have mentioned to others in the community that I admire those who sculpt in stone and wood. I hope to try it myself some day. When you do the grandfather, will he be there to model from? My father died in 1977, and I didn't discover the joy of modelling until 1995. I had to use picture, and the memories of all of the family. I finially got it right after five tries. Four in water base clay, and this last in oil base clay.