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figurative@rt 03-07-2011 05:25 PM

Your opinion about this artist
 
Hello everybody,
this is my first message on this board. As my nickname says, I'm mostly a figurative art fan, and in particular of sculptures in marble and bronze statues.

Some time ago I was presented to an artist living in Italy, almost unknown (at least to me), and I was really impressed of his works. His name is Jeroen Vermeire, in case somebody ever heard of him.
I see he also has a couple pages on the web.

Now, I'm here to get some feedback from this community to know if I made a good investment (I bought a bronze statue) and if you appreciate his works as much as I do.

I think a good link about him is this: facebook page

All your comments appreciated, also info about similar artists!
Thanks a lot in advance.

I'll also add a picture of the statue I bought (still have to find a good place for it):





Max di G.

GlennT 03-08-2011 10:16 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
I looked at the artist's FB photos and what I saw did not move me. There were some female figures with proportions skewed in some places which did not make much sense, and poses that expressed nothing to me. There was a marble piece that was pretty decent, but again nothing that I have not seen done better elsewhere.

What matters about your investment is whether or not the sculpture moves you. If this is a piece that inspires you and activates your imagination and gives you an aesthetic or other thrill to look at, it was a great investment. For me, finding a work by an Italian sculptor from 100 years ago, Leonardo Bistolfi, would be a great investment (if I could afford it) because his work really moves me.

It is all very subjective and the only thing that should matter to you regarding the investment is what your opinion of the piece is. There are so many ways to waste money but having an inspiring work of art in your home or office always pays back dividends in improving the quality of your life.

rika 03-08-2011 02:23 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
I found his style interesting. There is a puzzling inconsistency there, some of the pieces are really good, some of them awkward. Sometimes is the anatomy, sometimes the gesture. But I have to say the awkwardness is sweet, and I can see how some people would find that attractive. Also, some people might find that unmoving. I personally like skinny, elongated and distorted, so I think you made a good choice. :)

fritchie 03-09-2011 06:35 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
I just had time to get to this, and the replies more or less reflect my own feeling. I find the piece you show awkward and not especially well-made, but as GlennT says, it's your money and your choice. Welcome to our forum.

Pale Comparison 03-10-2011 12:33 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
I like his work, marble is really challenging to work with so I'm impressed, but I'm kind of bias to figurative sculpture myself.

fritchie 07-22-2011 07:32 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
For the Community's information: I got an email this morning from the original purchaser of this sculpture, asking that the posts be removed at the request of the artist. I'll email him back that it is not our policy to do that. It is informative to see the much later progress of this, however.

Nelson 07-22-2011 09:11 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fritchie (Post 99501)
For the Community's information: I got an email this morning from the original purchaser of this sculpture, asking that the posts be removed at the request of the artist. I'll email him back that it is not our policy to do that. It is informative to see the much later progress of this, however.

This is as subjective as liking or not certain sculpture. A true artist would NOT ask to remove comments from any forum, as harsh as they may seem.
Debating, arguing, critics and more are all part of the art world. One`s either in or out...:o

GlennT 07-22-2011 09:45 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Having this thread brought up again, I revisited the FB link to his work. I am puzzled by and not at all visually attracted to the strongly over-emphasized rib cages found in most of his figures. However, there is a seated bronze female figure free of this that he did and it is quite lovely.

figurative@rt 07-22-2011 02:13 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fritchie (Post 99501)
For the Community's information: I got an email this morning from the original purchaser of this sculpture, asking that the posts be removed at the request of the artist. I'll email him back that it is not our policy to do that. It is informative to see the much later progress of this, however.

When I entered this forum the few rules to accept did not mention the impossibility to edit or remove our own content (later on I discovered this ability was temporary); please point me to a policy which I have agreed on which mentions this.

I was kindly asked by that artist which I deeply respect to preferrably remove my original post from this forum or otherwise remove references to him from my posts; I don't have problems with doing this, and I thought it was my content. And I would like to keep a good relationship with him.
Therefore, and being unable to do it myself, I asked the moderators to act accordingly, and help me correct my mistake.

I did not get your email; I'd prefer to discuss this issue privately if possible.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelson (Post 99502)
This is as subjective as liking or not certain sculpture. A true artist would NOT ask to remove comments from any forum, as harsh as they may seem.
Debating, arguing, critics and more are all part of the art world. One`s either in or out...:o

Who is it that decides what a "true" artist should want?

I can understand he wants to be out of this discussion, as one picture, as good or bad as it may be taken, never shows a tridimentional figure in its true aspect, let be a piece of art; plus my opinion does not say anything about his vision either. While I have seen his works personally, most people judging here probably did not.

For anything else, please contact me by email (maxdigiov gmail com) ; I'll be glad to respond.

The Forge 07-22-2011 03:24 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
The obvious reason for this forum to exist is to get other artists' opinions on a piece of work. Whether you are the artist who created it or a person asking comments on a purchased piece, you are welcome here. My question to the artist in this case is "what you got to hide"? :eek:

GlennT 07-22-2011 05:06 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by figurative@rt (Post 99504)

I was kindly asked by that artist which I deeply respect to preferrably remove my original post from this forum or otherwise remove references to him from my posts; I don't have problems with doing this, and I thought it was my content. And I would like to keep a good relationship with him.
Therefore, and being unable to do it myself, I asked the moderators to act accordingly, and help me correct my mistake.

Who is it that decides what a "true" artist should want?

I can understand he wants to be out of this discussion, as one picture, as good or bad as it may be taken, never shows a tridimentional figure in its true aspect, let be a piece of art; plus my opinion does not say anything about his vision either. While I have seen his works personally, most people judging here probably did not.

You initiated this thread specifically asking for opinions regarding this artist. Had the responses all been positive, would the artist be asking to remove the post? You refer to your post as a mistake...does that mean you were originally prepared to remove the thread if you did not get the response you had hoped for?

I agree that a declaration of what a "true artist would want" is assuming too much. Artists have all sorts of temperments, which may or may not include being receptive to the opinions of others. All we can conjecture thus far is that the artist is not interested in opinions that do not reinforce his particular vision.

It is disrespectful of our intelligence and sensitivity as artists to assume that the opinions rendered here can be dismissed on the basis of being made only from seeing a faulty or incomplete photographic view. First, that was what was provided when the opinion was asked for. Again, had the responses all been positive, would you have bothered to make this assertion?

Second, you provided the artist's facebook link which has numerous images including multiple views of certain sculptures. This is the presentation that the artist has assembled to show his work to the world. If that visual information is incomplete, the fault is not with the viewer. I for one took the time to examine these works before giving my honest opinion.

Third, most members of this forum are professional sculptors who are quite familiar with the limitations of communicating the essence of a sculpture photographically. I believe we have a better insight than your average viewer in understanding what we are looking at. That is what this forum is about, an exchange of ideas, opinions, learning, and perspectives from fellow professionals. You can expect a range of honest and often conflicting opinions here. In like manner, I would not have made my same comments on the artist's own facebook page, because I understand that artists are using such pages in part to help market their work, so there it is best to either keep things positive or remain silent, unless an honest critique is specifically asked for as seemed to be the case, at least initially, on this thread.

evaldart 07-22-2011 06:42 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Yeah, Glenn says it good. THIS place is not for anyones promotion...it is for discussion. And it is an OPEN forum. As the matter of aesthetics is the MOST important thing that can get exchanged between humans, it would be disasterous to alter or censor the exchange. If you've been an artist awhile your skin is tough...if its not...then the whining will get you nowhere (just like in life). We do, help each other get better; even if it doesnt feel so nice at the time.

Mack 07-22-2011 08:52 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
I don't understand the artist's wish to have all these comments removed. Some are positive, some negative. Some of us went to the website and took that in and saw good work and as Rika said , some awkward. Also these threads fade away like a (clever metaphor) so who is going to read this except people who do sculpture and visit this site. Certainly not any future clients of the artist who might be buying his stuff, unless he wanted to direct those prospective clients here to affirm their decision to acquire his work. Best just let this die and disappear along with all the threads that have gone before. Nothing is erasable anymore.

grommet 07-22-2011 10:41 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
at the very least, can't the image be removed from the hosting site?

The piece was sold, so the artist's control is limited. I do understand the reluctance to be a secondhand participant in a critique of your own work.

GlennT 07-22-2011 11:47 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grommet (Post 99509)
I do understand the reluctance to be a secondhand participant in a critique of your own work.

Unavoidable if an artist plans to show their work publicly.

Adolphine 07-23-2011 04:31 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Agreed with GlennT and the further discussion.
Mentioning facebook, I once wrote in a (guest?)book left at the exhibition of paintings; "Lousy work, try something else." The works displayed were depictions of a praying man, in different positions. The room had the scent of burnt incense and I felt very awkward "participating" in this poorly executed cliché (living in Bali, Buddhas you know). The paintings themselves, regardless of the forced atmosphere were lacking of any skills, and just piss-poor. The other written critique in this book were all very positive to say the least. I wonder if it was me, or if it was the artist that was being punked.

grommet 07-23-2011 07:54 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
desire & outcome don't necessarily have anything to do with each other. Recognizing where someone might be in their artistic journey might make some people more empathetic. And some people only have the ability to say yes or no. Perhaps it takes the critic just as long to develop their vision as it takes the artist to develop theirs.

Adolphine 07-23-2011 08:19 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Hey Grommet, I understand but am I completely wrong in giving an honest opinion. Would you rather have people lying about how great you are (when in fact you are not) (regardless of being established or emerging) or just simply ignore you. The latter, I find more in-empathic.

Adolphine 07-23-2011 08:30 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Hey Grommet, I understand but am I completely wrong in giving an honest opinion. Would you rather have people lying about how great you are (when in fact you are not) (regardless of being established or emerging) or just simply ignore you. The latter, I find more in-empathic.

evaldart 07-23-2011 08:55 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
A, "lousy work, try something else" is NOT criticism, nor is it critique. Its a shallow thought to write-down. If you did not connect to the work, perhaps a discussion of WHY (with the artist) would improve the both of you. The smell of the room is not relevant to the experience of a painting, nor is the amount of (perceived) "skill", nor the subject matter being addressed. Do the hard work, if you care to relate your revulsion (to the artists or anyone else in commentary) of investigating why those paintings were not art for you. THAT is what would provide for the possibility of pertinence. NOT an, easy, flippant insult.

And G, empathy and sympathy are great methods for bending yourself into agreeability with other folk. That works great in the functional areas of human exchange but NOT in matters of aesthetic perusing. We ought to be more respectful than that to those we wish to engage in such an important discussion...critique or evaluation. And yes, if you position yourself to "criticize" (which is NOT only about addressing weaknesses) you DO need to invest the proper intensity (not the proper "time"). Weak, abbreviated or borrowed commentary is NON-commentary, non participating. In the matters of intellectual exchange everyone should be as exerted and original as they can be...or dont bother at all. Art CAN, after all, get done just fine without any words at all - and sometimes THAT is best.

Oh, and we sculptors must take tare not to "journey" too far from the studio...lest we talk more than we make and diminish into mere critics.:D

Adolphine 07-23-2011 10:16 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by evaldart (Post 99515)
A, "lousy work, try something else" is NOT criticism, nor is it critique. Its a shallow thought to write-down.

Is that your opinion, or is it in fact, "the truth". You are right though it being shallow but would you be more inclined calling it critique if I added a spoonful of sugar.

evaldart 07-23-2011 11:03 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
No, a "critique" is an exchange. It is not one piece or even a body of work. Sugar is for babies. But a trowel of original thought mortars just whats good about "criticism". Dig.

Mack 07-23-2011 11:41 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
A:
You're not an "art critic", you're an artist. This work you refer to repelled you and your reaction was to inform the artist that his efforts are misguided and he should do something different, not art. It's harsh, to say the least and even cruel to a degree. It could only hurt since there's a good chance he's not going to follow your counsel. If hurting someone for their own good was your intention, maybe that needs to be looked at. One of the marvels of being alive is watching cherished opinions wither in the light of new information. Uncomfortable if you try to hang on to them...wonderful when you see their narrowness and say "good riddance!"

Adolphine 07-23-2011 12:53 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
So if I read it right Evaldart, according to you critique happens solely when a discourse has occurred, visually on one side followed verbally, preferblablably by the two parties? I might interpret the words wrongly out of lack of intonation, but I disagree. Can I? (you can still be right though, I'm young and open to ideas, but for now, still NO, :) )
I did think of my opinion to be honest (perhaps not true, but true for me) and didn't have any intentions of delivering a cheap shot. Let alone being hurtful. I can't understand why every single person in this "holy bible" was saying "Inspiring,... great work" and not a single person "I find the piece you show awkward and not especially well-made". I just evened out the balance as not to have another disillusioned soul wandering around who thinks he/she can walk on water. The gallery probably ripped out my comment before it could have done any good and the person might have drowned as we speak.

scrapartoz 07-23-2011 02:05 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Hey Adolphine.....I think its ok that you said the work was crap but you must say WHY. so the artist can consider your viewpoint not just reject it coz he feels insulted. it gives him (the artist) a framework that he may not have considered and may actually help him on his path.

Andrew Werby 07-23-2011 05:27 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
I can't really say much about the art, since all I've seen is a rather poor photo of it. But my opinion of the artist definitely went down a notch when I hear that he can't face criticism, to the point of demanding that this discussion be removed. Any artist has to face the fact that not everybody is going to appreciate a particular piece of art. Some won't like any of their work - that's life. If this artist is so sensitive that having people talk about his work is unbearable to him, he should keep it secret, and certainly never show or sell any of it.

Andrew Werby
Juxtamorph.com

Nelson 07-23-2011 08:24 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Werby (Post 99522)
I can't really say much about the art, since all I've seen is a rather poor photo of it. But my opinion of the artist definitely went down a notch when I hear that he can't face criticism, to the point of demanding that this discussion be removed. Any artist has to face the fact that not everybody is going to appreciate a particular piece of art. Some won't like any of their work - that's life. If this artist is so sensitive that having people talk about his work is unbearable to him, he should keep it secret, and certainly never show or sell any of it.

Andrew Werby
Juxtamorph.com

Sure Andrew, agree with you 120%. The discussion shifted all at a sudden from what our perception of his sculpture could be, to his stand on unfavourable views of his work. Some blows come from people who aren`t amateurs so a degree of thruth, and some constructiveness is always possible to draw on behalf of the artist himself. In all, what should really matter is the outlook of the artist more intelligently looking at the half FULL glass, even when someone may shout the darn thing is bone dry...

Adolphine 07-24-2011 07:40 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Yes scrapartoz, I don't think it's mandatory to have explained myself, but placing myself in the artist in question his/her shoes, I would indeed have appreciated it WHY someone writes something in the "guest book". But should we then also not explain WHY we write anything, either it being "positive" or "negative", since nothing is either until we think of it as such (loosely paraphrasing Shakespeare).
Perhaps we should move the discussion somewhere else and show how empathic we really are... I do hope Mr. V, sculptor in bronze and marble, has found it enlightening.

evaldart 07-24-2011 09:48 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
You bothered to write in the fellow"s book...and took no responsibiltiy for what you wrote. Weak. Thats all.

mavigogun 07-25-2011 04:49 AM

Your opinion about opinions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by evaldart (Post 99533)
You bothered to write in the fellow"s book...and took no responsibiltiy for what you wrote. Weak. Thats all.

Well... it was all- until the selfish act of conceit was flaunted here, then obstinately defended.

I pretty much despise all jazz that involves more than a piano. I don't go out of my way to hear it, or to voice my disdain for it- as doing so would be perversely destructive.

"Autodidact" means "self-taught", not "can't learn from others"; there are learning opportunities present when confronted by work that others admire, but we do not. Expanded understanding/perception doesn't mean embracing and incorporating, or the attenuation of our own vision. It may very well be that Adolphine had no worth wild contribution to make to the painter; if the work hadn't been regarded -perhaps out of jealousy- as an affront, the painter may have had something of worth by way of education to offer Adolphine. Even the rice farmer has something to teach you- if you know how to learn/listen.

Gimmicks oft taint what might otherwise be sound work- be it quantity, contrast, scale, abstraction, super realism, the absurd- what have you. Is the quality integral to the work, and does it speak favorably to some portion of those experiencing it? Regarding Jeroen Vermeir's work, the prevalent prominent ribs seem an artistic affliction- stuck on a theme that isn't developing toward perfected expression, just more of the same. While Vermeir may wish the power to trod Godzilla-like across salons and coffee shops, forums and communities that speak critically of the work, we remain fortunate that there is no such potency behind the tantrum. Sadly, ego rejected interest beyond control- we could have had such a lovely conversation...

Wrapping the topics of critique and prejudice together, I'll make another admission: I prefer representation and narrative over the abstract or the subjectively pointless. Turning to the work of an artist that has proven a predilection to pontificate, Adolphine's “Religioussily” provides me a mixed challenge: figurative and abstract, the symbolism appeals to my desire for story. A bit of a cypher. For me, the seated figure blocks the perception of the larger figure, while looking inward- a warning. A bit preachy, unsubtle- as intended, I suppose. I wonder, though- were it not for the shared symbolic lexicon, how would I regard the work? A bit esthetically off putting? Some work that I have deep affection for, I initially found distasteful. Time will tell.

Adolphine 07-25-2011 05:05 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
In the way you are talking (Evaldart), I sense some sort of failure in the arts by yourself (still talking to you E) which you clearly have acknowledged by looking at your "Farmers Walk" where you try to disarm any negativity that you felt was inevitable by disclaiming "My carving efforts thus far - infantile and clumsy". I think you better try and let go of whatever trauma you have from someone who spoke the truth, with you knowing he spoke the truth, but didn't "bother to explain it to you". Why do you even bother replying if you can't even understand what I am saying.

mavigogun 07-25-2011 08:14 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adolphine (Post 99536)
In the way you are talking (Evaldart), I sense some sort of failure in the arts by yourself

If you aren't failing, then you aren't trying- at least, nothing beyond hitherto accomplished. Check out Bill Shatner's song "Has-ben", which speaks directly to the issue- and detractors of 'failure'.

Adolphine (another name for Methadone, by-the-way- can I just call you Emanuel?), that interpretation and assessment of evaldart's motive was so over sized and craptacular, it is impossible to believe you would expect anyone to swallow it- yourself included. Oh, I'm not suggesting that you close your critical eye- only that your attempts to deflect when the focus is on you are failing -badly.

evaldart 07-25-2011 08:42 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
I'll receive the deflected ire, no problem at all (at the risk of us slipping of-topic). It turns out, A, that the long ago aformentioned "infantile and clumsy" relationship that I had initiated in "Farmers Walk" has persevered thrillingly. The conscious avoidance of any maturity and of the developing of any skill in the undertaking of that body of figurative work (the carvings) has enabled and propelled the creative experience there-in. In all, things there are developing significantly. Though, as always, in idle-er moments, some pertinent banter is always a plus.

I'm not yet ready to bag it (sculpture) yet...though I do have a fondness for collecting stamps. Perhaps THAT should receive my passion, huh?

fritchie 07-25-2011 11:02 AM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Just a footnote to all this. My email to the original purchaser (figurative@rt) that was sent yesterday came back overnight as undeliverable. He may now want out of this discussion completely.

Adolphine 07-25-2011 12:47 PM

Re: Your opinion about this artist
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mavigogun (Post 99538)
If you aren't failing, then you aren't trying- at least, nothing beyond hitherto accomplished... Oh, I'm not suggesting that you close your critical eye- only that your attempts to deflect when the focus is on you are failing -badly.


Perhaps I'm failing (badly), at least I'm trying. A wise person once told me this :)
I know you don't mean it like that Mavigogun, I just couldn't pass up on the twister. But fair enough, I felt the focus on me as somewhat magnifying and concentrating to such a degree that it was giving a burning sensation. Perhaps I shouldn't eat too spicy. I'm possibly bad in interpreting Evaldart, though I can't help but feel that he doesn't bother to read what I have to say, and instead calls me irresponsible and weak. Dig,... I'm pretty sure that's where my childish reply found it's root. But hey, I am still a child, so at least, I have an excuse. Perhaps not.

Evaldart, I suppose a true sculptor will bag it when he's in the bag, so I do hope you'll keep creating (compliment).

And Mavigogun, you may call me Emanuel or by my other middle name Florent. I like the name Adolphine, since you can read it as "a dolphine" a gentle and intelligent creature. I guess the subliminal strength of the word couldn't stand up to my excellence in playing nintendo.

Fritchie, sorry to change the position of your footnote.


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