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  #1  
Old 07-20-2007, 10:23 PM
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Landseer Landseer is offline
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admixtures

Looking for a retail supplier for concrete admixtures like the fritz-pak supercizer 6 and air-minus.
So far all I find in google are huge industrial places, outfits in china, offers to bid on 50,000# articles ABOUT these chemicals, chemical manufacturers, finshed job articles using admixtures and so on. The only place I found was concretedepot and their site totally SUCKS- every time I looked, with two browsers the pages load slower than molassis. When I tried to order w/o the BS of creating a user account and password, it circled me back to the categories of products.

Finally fed up I created a stupid account to order and antered all of the information, credit card, shipping address etc and it not only didn't retain those it cycled me back to the categories.

I went to fritz-pak's site and checked retail outlets, no matter which of the half dozen states I clicked on, most had no web site, those that did- one was gone/defunct, the others only had a couple of very limited products in large sizes, I bet Fritz doesn't bother to update their list more than once a decade.

All I want is to order a 2-1/2# bag of the 6 and and the 500 gm of the minus with my credit card on the web, it shouldnt be THIS difficult to buy a couple of small products w/o a hassle or having to buy 500 pounds.
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2007, 11:54 AM
Rojellio Rojellio is offline
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Re: admixtures

Quote:
The only place I found was concretedepot and their site totally SUCKS- every time I looked, with two browsers the pages load slower than molassis. When I tried to order w/o the BS of creating a user account and password, it circled me back to the categories of products.

I experienced the endless cycle also. I shot them an email asking w.t.f.? They asked me if I was using Firefox, and told me I had to use Internet Explorer.

Concrete Depot is the ONLY place I have found for the Fritzpack baggies, and for PowerPozz Metakoalin.

Remember on the fritzpack stuff to calculate the dose. The air minus is dosed something on the order of 0.15% to weight of cement. For a cubic foot batch.. this is something like barely a teaspoon. Thank god for Google's Conversion function thingie.
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  #3  
Old 07-23-2007, 02:58 PM
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sculptor sculptor is offline
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Re: admixtures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landseer
Looking for a retail supplier for concrete admixtures like the fritz-pak supercizer 6 and air-minus. ... .
Ignorance factor---and a question

what are these admixtures?
what do they do?
what other admixtures do you(have you) use(d))?
and why...and why not?

reason...
I am building outdoor sculptures of rocks and walls and ledges and seeming ruins
and using many n the watercourse as waterfalls and seating(ledges)
....so far, the pump is an old submersible sump pump (wrapped in used screening)with a hose
it raises the water 5' over a 40 ft run(up hill) and cascades a 3 ft curtain of water
by adding various colorants, and smoothing some of the surfaces under freezer wrap, i can get rough to glossy finishes...which mimic natural rock outcroppings quite convincingly
...would a plasticizer make controling the strength, density and/or texture easier, and will it hold up to the iowa winters?

any thoughts appreciated as I am virtually ignorant of anything beyond cement, lime, aggregate and water

rod
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  #4  
Old 07-23-2007, 07:29 PM
Rojellio Rojellio is offline
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Re: admixtures

Quote:
...would a plasticizer make controling the strength, density and/or texture easier, and will it hold up to the iowa winters?
Plasticizer.. the first thing to know is the word "plastic" is used in the sense of "workable consistancy". When it comes to concrete, freshly mixed concrete is considered "plastic" , after hydration starts.. it isnt plastic anymore.

The way I understand it, plasticizer admix reduces friction between the portland cement particles making it flow better. This allows you to have a lower water to cement ratio (less water) Some superplastizers advertise up to 6" slump drop.

Slump is a Test performed with a 12" tall cone 8" diameter at bottom, and 4" diameter at top. It is filled in 3 equal lifts, and each lift is rodded 25 times. It is slowly rotated and lifted up, the measurement is taken from top of cone , However far in inches the pile "slumps" is considered the slump measurement.

Now say if a 3" slump (which is quite stiff ) achieved a slump drop of 6" ... that would be a 9" slump which is considered quite runny.

Many of the other admixtures are discussed on the Portland Cement Association website. Much of that info on the site is straight out of the "Design and Control of concrete mixtures" publication.

Holding up to winters... The American Concrete Association recommend that all outdoor concrete be at least 4,000 psi. . For decorative concrete, which is what you are doing.. 5,000+ psi concrete is standard.

Also air entrainment.. entrained air helps keep outdoor concrete from cracking. 6% is the target number. Knowing your air content is the complicated test. It requires a beastly test unit that is sort of like a blood pressure cuff for concrete.

The Rule of 6's for good concrete: 6 sack of portland per yard, 6% air, keep it moist for 6 days.
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  #5  
Old 07-23-2007, 08:09 PM
PTsideshow PTsideshow is offline
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Re: admixtures

Locally the local cement, brick, block mason building supply has the admixtures for tweeking of the mix. And if you just want the liquid acrylic strengtheners The quick crete brand has a couple of things at the home despot and lowes. Most of the block and building supply that deal with brickies generally have the stuff you are looking for. I don't know if it is just a local thing or not.
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  #6  
Old 07-23-2007, 11:17 PM
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Landseer Landseer is offline
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Re: admixtures

I use Firefox, but I also tried it with Safari.

The supercizer 6 is the best of the 7 choices for what I want- use a tad less water and get more liquid/flow, the air minus is supposed to reduce the air bubbles that collect on the surface of the cast, chances are the supercizer 6 will be all I need. I work the concrete in well and typically get great casts with few bubbles on the surface, but suddenly I'm getting more of them because I'm trying to keep a stiff mix. Supercizer 6 will allow the concrete to almost pour like heavy plaster while not adding more water to do so which weakens it. You can also use it for stronger concrete BY reducing the water which it allows and still be workable.
This formula doesnt affect set time, I think formula 7 retards set a liitle and another one speeds it up a little.

I haven't used other admixtures other than colorants.
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  #7  
Old 07-25-2007, 09:33 AM
Rojellio Rojellio is offline
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Re: admixtures

The literature that came with Air-Minus says that some superplasticizers increase air entrainment. (not necessarily the bubbles that form on the surface.. but I am sure that a higher air mix would have a propensity to develop more surface bubbles) So basically if the supercizer 6 also boosts air content, the air minus would be counteracting that.

FWIW, with air minus and FR1 I didnt notice a huge effect on surface air. Some, but nothing miraculous.


With plasticizer, bumped up fines (the fine 70-100 mesh fines) and pozzalone... you might get something more on the order of SCC Self Consolidating Concrete. That is the one where a slump test is irrelevant, and the slump cone is turned upside down for a flow test.
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2007, 09:53 AM
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Re: admixtures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rojellio
The literature that came with Air-Minus says that some superplasticizers increase air entrainment.
I mix entirely by hand in a large plastic tub, no machine, mixers etc
I don't sell concrete casts in such a quantity I need to do a factory-like production, it represents maybe 5% of my sales at best and eventually I'd prefer to get largely away from concrete and hydrocal in favor of fired terra-cotta which is far more durable, can be glazed, displayed indoors or out, and is considerably lighter than concrete.

Some of the issues include the fact that would require new molds, kiln and a lot of hand detailing/touchup of undercuts and other details that are either blocked over in the plaster mold to allow easy release, or lost in handling.

I want to do a couple or three of my designs to test and start with and see from there.

I got an email from concretedepot about 2 items in my 'cart' on their web site and asking why I didn't complete my order, I emailed back about their web store and never heard back again, oh well I guess I don't really need the stuff anyway and will make do, dealing with them to TRY a couple of products out is more hassle than it's worth. It didn't even work with internet explorer, Shira, Firefox or Safari and I'm tired of messing with a web store that doesn't work right.
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  #9  
Old 07-26-2007, 10:30 AM
Rojellio Rojellio is offline
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Re: admixtures

Sorry to hear about the bad experience with concrete depot.

I finally got to try the supercizer-2. A couple weeks ago when I tried it.. I had just added it into the mix and my Home Depot cheapo mixer died. (A fate I had anticipated.) My new mixer, the Imer Wheelman had its first run last night.

I put the FR-1 water reducer, retarder in before the Portland. Then the Portland, followed by 10% powerPozz. Air Minus. Dingle balls forming nicely. Adding water with a Fogg-it nozzle, a nice fine mist to evenly distribute the water. I got it to where the dingle balls (gravel coated with cement& sand) broke, and the sidewall clingage fell off. Just about right for a stiff mix, approx. 3 -4 slump. The mixer was rocking a little, with a thunk from falling lumped cement. As soon as I added the Supercizer-2, it went plastic. Way plastic. The rocking action, and noise smoothed out. The mix was more plastic than I had imagined, quite runny actually. I am guessing a solid 4"-5" slump drop. This stuff was in range of 8" - 9" slump. (Imagine a mix of cottage cheese and pancake batter.)

With the Terracotta. I dont see anything wrong with blending in some concrete technology... at least on an experimental basis. PowerPozz (MetaKoalin) is light and fluffy, and depending where one digs their terra.. could conceivably be in there anyway to some extent. Plasticizer *might* have the same friction reducing effect in ANY material. Microfiber would be nearly as effective at helping with shrinkage cracks, and provide a matrix that helps hold it together. (microfiber is something you have to see, feel and test to believe. destructive testing the old fashioned way with a hammer)

I thank my lucky stars that early settlers, conquistadors or whatever did not correctly identify the color of the Colorado River!!! Coloterracotta would be a dreadfull name for a state.
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2007, 05:14 PM
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Re: admixtures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rojellio
My new mixer, the Imer Wheelman had its first run last night.
.
I looked at that model and didn't like it, for quite a bit less I bought the Grizzley cement mixer and it's really rugged. The whole thing is steel and cast-iron;

http://www.grizzly.com/products/H5697


  • And with a capacity of 3-60 lb. bags of premix, you can make short work of those home projects
  • Features a 1/2 HP motor, 22 RPM at the barrel, cart type A-frame with 5" wheels, 3 1/2 cubic feet of actual volume and a cast iron barrel bottom for durability
Price: $225.00

Freight: $44.00
Your Price $269.00

When it arrived a year or so ago when I bought it, I was impressed and it takes a lot to do that, this machine was a real machine and substantially HEAVY which is great for stability on something like this. The bottom half of the drum is solid cast-iron as is the trunion. It has a steel drive gear which I wanted because all of the reviews I read on several other machines indicated those machines had plastic or nylon gears and that many users reported repeated breakage and cracking with, at least a couple said theirs broke with the first or second use.

While my mixer didn't wind up being used as planned- for sculptures- puts too much air in the concrete to mix it this way- I've used it to mix thousands of pounds of concrete for heavy footings, foundation and slabs around here and it works well.


Hard to tell in the photo, but all of the steel supports are around 3/16 to maybe 1/4" thick stuff- not that flimsy sheet metal you see a lot of.
I don't remember what the shipping weight was but seem to remember it was over 200#


Can't beat a $44 truck freight shipping charge, this came on a wood pallet in boxes- Grizzley gets a good rate for shipping.

On to concretedepot, I suppose my emails to them finally got them to fix their web site, because it now works and I think I used Firefox too, it accepted the order and it's on it's way.
I got the supercizer 6 to try, though in reading the instructions PDF I see it has as reddish color, but indicates that shouldnt have an effect except in a heavy dose- I sure don't want light pink casts!
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  #11  
Old 08-05-2007, 12:02 AM
Rojellio Rojellio is offline
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Re: admixtures

The FR1 water reducer/retarder, and all the Fritz plasticizers have the same dark brown color. I haven't seen a difference in color. I have mixed white and yellow batch's and haven't seen problems. well... aside from the problem of concrete being a yellow cake uranium color.

The quantity is also quite small... barely enough to have color effect with the same quantity of pigment. For the plasticizer its something like 0.15% by weight of cement which was about 2oz for 140 pounds of concrete. You are looking at Tablespoon, teaspoon.. or even dab, nip and pinch spoons depending on your batch.

Last edited by Rojellio : 08-05-2007 at 11:47 AM.
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