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  #26  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:54 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: Noah.

Okay...after many scribbled and scratches I have one worth showing. I'll have another soon.
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  #27  
Old 07-04-2012, 05:21 AM
scrapartoz scrapartoz is offline
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Re: Noah.

I think you have a very good start to your "Noah" , the sketch idea shows all the key elements without to much Charlton Heston 'agony'. i think this will be a major and memorable l work that others will copy.


On a unrelated , non serious, flipant note after studying the enlaged image (lol) I think the model should lay off the Viagra for a few days! ( Sorry, couldnt help myself)

No, Seriously this is going to be a challenging work to achieve. Good luck,.. I know it will be something you will be proud of and that others will steal your technique and hard won construction style.
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  #28  
Old 07-04-2012, 06:35 AM
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Re: Noah.

It looks good to me...good luck with it.
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  #29  
Old 07-04-2012, 10:24 AM
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Re: Noah.

congrats on the commission, lots of good comments herein. We see his inner zeal, but I don't see evidence of the threat of things beyond his control to be tamed. Even animating the gesture of the hair could add a lot. Perhaps a small sketch is difficult to interpret, but I'm not seeing peril, only zeal.
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  #30  
Old 07-04-2012, 12:22 PM
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Re: Noah.

I like the depiction of Noah as the strong, physically fit old man. And I like the hammer and plank in his hands. If he is to personify the weather and internalize it, it will become very important the gesture of the hands, the tension in his musculature, his stance. I see the tension in the hand holding the hammer, not as much in the other hand yet, but this is just a sketch. I think too much attention on the hair and beard would trivialize the concept. It should be a subtle external support, not an attention grabber. The direction this is taking seems right and credible.
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  #31  
Old 07-04-2012, 01:48 PM
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Re: Noah.

The challenge seems to be to make this about something other than his virility. Or maybe he's just another guy with his mighty... attention grabber, and that's all Noah was after, his glory days.... Sort of sad....
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  #32  
Old 07-04-2012, 02:29 PM
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Re: Noah.

It wont really be Noah by the time I'm through with it. I will let it stay human - see it through as a figurative piece that resonates the "tone" that I am after. But the story is the beginning, remember; a launching place. I am in charge of this Noah, and I will not be bound by a story.

Yes, It is indeed handy that someone will be paying me straight away (it will buy my son his braces...he's thrilled). But I was due to make a large figure anyways; after all those little carved ones. It might not have been a Noah, I was thinking Gregor Samsa - depicted as he was before his big change. but I am looking forward to tackling that beard - never done one before.

He will be sinewy...not idealized, his "age or "old-ness" is not a matter of consequence - all the intensity he needs is found in the contemplative nature. The "action" is, this time, better served when it is not illustrated. Perhaps some wind will be affecting him...In the end it will be a thousand pounds of mangled metal - metal that gave me a whirl and a flurry.... to get me fit, in every way, to do the next one.

I do have another sketch that I will submit. So there will be two to choose from. I'll post it as soon as its done.

Thanks for all the good input.
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  #33  
Old 07-04-2012, 02:52 PM
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Re: Noah.

Given your style of sculpting, I can see this develop well. I'm not so sure about the plank of 4"x2" PAR supplied by the local builders' merchants!

Having now read the story, and seen your sketch, I’ll add a few thoughts, but only the thoughts I might explore were I making the sculpture rather than you.

First, Second and Third Adam.
Analogically, in a sense this is a second beginning, isn’t it? God has decided that man’s corruption, and his corruption of the entire world as well, cannot be tolerated. God is referred to as repenting having made man at all. He is full of grief and regret. The story, then, is about the destruction by God of this special thing that he created, and of His desire for a potential new beginning. Like the Adam story, man had fallen from grace - Noah as a new Adam. This would be a potent parallel for me (and of course Christ was the next attempt by God to save mankind from his evil – the third Adam). Note also that Noah goes on to drunkenness and cursing his fellow man. Noah falls like all men, just as Adam did originally.

For me, this set of meanings has real relevance. We experience our own sense of the failure of mankind today. Our ‘evils’ seem to overwhelm all the good we might do. This is a very relevant theme.

I might also suspect, though, that the writers of the Noah story were essentially setting out to create a genealogy of their tribe that links the tribe back to God – a narrative of POWER, in fact. (The list of the generations of the sons of Noah follows the story). It may be a narrative that is designed to make of God a special friend of this particular tribe – the narrative, then, is self-serving and political. God's saving of Noah above ALL other human beings reinforces the primacy of the tribe - it's authority. The description of Noah may confirm this too: he was 600 years old at the time of the flood and lived to over 900 years when other men had an age of about 120 years. This may set out to show God's favouring of Noah - the patriarch.

For me it is a story that is only saved by the image of man that emerges – one I recognise. And we have a story in which even God admits failure (failed maker - nice sculptor analogy. I know about that failure myself! And of the desire to destroy it all!).
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Last edited by Kilkenny : 07-04-2012 at 03:58 PM.
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  #34  
Old 07-04-2012, 09:31 PM
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Re: Noah.

I like it Kenny, Thanks for that. I will keep those thoughts in mind as this develops. Because yes, when you distill all this stuff, remove the collective agenda from the story, it becomes apparent that man(kind), the individual, the solitary significance-seeker (the artist) must put himself to the test of rising to his own divinity...against unfathomable odds. And there is a special gaze that settles or interrupts the "work" of finally becoming "godlike"...a daunted but determined gaze that afflicts upon the realization that there is so much further to go, and more to do, and that if you are up to it, it will never stop, ever. Many individuals have had the nerve. And these are not themes of humanity, they are themes of one self-reflecting individual. The EveryNoah, perhaps.
The board, the hammer, the beard...the arms and legs too, are all just illustrative props. And those props indeed must become secondary to the potency of the arrangement of line and masses, or they may rise to formal prominence. What sculptor could resist the dynamic diagonal slash of that piece of wood - especially amidst the quietness of the contemplative tone.
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  #35  
Old 07-05-2012, 07:35 AM
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Re: Noah.

e,

I haven't read all the posts but here's my two cents.

Yes, Noah was known for building the arc and your sketch does show a man with a hammer and a piece of wood.

But, his connection with animals, I believe, is a much stronger association and would lead to a more recognizable image.

And don't forget the dove at the end of the story - another possible recognizable image.

Just a thought.

peace
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  #36  
Old 07-05-2012, 04:49 PM
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Re: Noah.

matt, Kilkenny excellent last posts.
although not articulated as well by my last post. it is this sence of backwardness, upside down {not that it is backwards or upside down. more like full spectrum} look at the story my mind was contemplating.
meaning noah doesent have to be about the man and what he did.

there is so much more thought to consider . so many slants and different perspectives, that could be used to perpetuate the essence of the thing.

and what great fuel bible stories offer.
and contemplating our very existence, and stories and wonderment of our creation and creator or the consideration of the lack of it.
an enactment only possible by a being of higher consciousness. that knows he is alive and mortal.

god like
behind a flaming sword that points every way, so that he does not find the tree of life and eats from it, and lives for ever, and becomes like one of us. [something like that]
one of a few i have considered for my sculptural propellment
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  #37  
Old 07-05-2012, 06:17 PM
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Re: Noah.

Yes. I like evaldart's last post as well. And Chris'.

Oddist makes a good point about the dove. And this reminds us of how the story of Noah isn't a realistic narrative. It's not history, and Noah is not an ordinary man. The dove finding an olive leaf after the flood is pure symbolism (one is peace and the other heavenly power, I believe). But it's the 'heavenly power' I find somewhat offensive after the flood - man's having to offer sacrifices and obey God's demands. It's not a sympathetic version of the new regime! (And of course it doesn't work anyway - man is wayward. Given freedom of will the rules WILL get broken!). I do like, though, how the first Adam lost his state of innocence by an apple; and this one loses his 'perfection' by the grape! Nice touch that!

Note the rainbow/covenant as well.

A story a child wrote for me once (summarised):
God was in class with all the other little Gods. it was creative play time, and this one little God thought that he would create a MAN. Everyone else in class laughed and smirked. But noboby said anything - he was the slow learner after all. They'd all get on with something sensible - something that would work. The rest we know.....

For a moment, Noah stands outside this mess. The story offers us something that is better than the world it springs from.
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  #38  
Old 07-06-2012, 06:29 AM
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Re: Noah.

Reading this morning, I came across the following lines, about a man with religious leanings:

'Bellamy found simply living a task of amazing difficulty. It was as if ordinary human life were a mobile machine full of holes, crannies, spaces, apertures, fissures, cavities, lairs.....'

I couldn't make a sculpture out of this image, but you could....

Author: Iris Murdock book: 'The Green Knight'
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  #39  
Old 07-06-2012, 03:40 PM
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Re: Noah.

I like the idea of impending hardship. With Noah, there's that in spades. He had to build the ark and then there was the challenge of bringing the animals together, followed by the oncoming torrent of rain. But which moment? For me, it would be the moment the first drops are felt. Maybe things weren't quite finished and now the sense of urgency begins to fill his body. Perhaps and upturned hand, catching a drop of rain, and a strong breeze moving through his hair and beard. I like the board in hand instead of a staff. It lets the viewer know that things are still in progress. This figure (Noah) is any "man" preparing for the torrent. It's a very human experience.

Good luck with it. I'll be stopping in here to eagerly check your progress.

Alfred
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  #40  
Old 07-07-2012, 06:12 AM
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Re: Noah.

Alfred's reply reminds me of the absurdity of thinking that an actual man could have achieved what Noah was set to do. An ark of 350 cubits (500 feet) is a tough call for a single guy - in fact, impossible if one considers the beams that will be needed to simply create a frame. Equally impossible is the collection of the animals (can't even imagine how he can round up the range of birds). If one tries to rationalise it, a large team would be needed or the help of God himself. Now, there isn't going to be a team - I for one wouldn't be working on a boat that I'd be excluded from when the rains start to fall (!). So that leaves God.

But all of this is beside the point: Noah is made a giant by his relation to God (and it may be no co-incidence that the Noah story begins with reference to an age of giants - was Noah meant to be seen as one of these?). He stands above normal considerations about how it will all get done. The sculpture, then, for me, is of a giant/God figure, who points to the future as the tribal figurehead, the Special One.
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  #41  
Old 07-09-2012, 06:11 PM
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Re: Noah.

In the face of all that was done and had happened the story hinges psychologically with the obscenely symbolic dove. There is an anticlimactic resolution in that "scene". There is a man there who is now about to be "nobody" again without his absurd assignment. This 'late-flood" moment is, because of its abject immeasurability amongst the cataclysmic armageddonist apocalyptic extravagancies, shining to me as the most relevant one.
I'm tossing things about there for a spell (sketches underway). And I'll be proceeding soon thereafter.
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  #42  
Old 07-11-2012, 07:10 AM
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Re: Noah.

Given your focus on the dove, I suspect that I might have been wrong to suggest earlier that the dove symbolises peace. This is certainly what it symbolises these days, but when looking at the Noah story it may be that it is a contrast for the raven that Noah sends out first. Now, the raven could, in religious terms, symbolise the 'unclean' (scavenger/unholy/black) in contrast to the dove as 'clean' (holy/grey or white), setting up an image of a potentially fractured world-view. But it may take someone with a knowledge of the symbolism of these birds for the time, or for religious contexts, to clarify this.
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  #43  
Old 07-11-2012, 09:10 AM
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Re: Noah.

Aaah yes, K, the raven. And as the two might get executed in torched steel, there will be no perceivable difference between a raven and a dove. And so the symbolism is subjugated by the process and material...as it should be.
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  #44  
Old 07-13-2012, 03:37 PM
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Re: Noah.

Long time ago, travelling in Yorkshire (Northern England) we visited a church with Madonna and Noah! Attached: Noah and the dove, a relief by John Bunting.
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  #45  
Old 07-13-2012, 04:08 PM
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Re: Noah.

Yes, I like it. The dove is more relevant than most of the props...and it will combine well compositionally with the figure; not afflicting it with scenery or prop. The thing can remain a figurative singularity...more than a gnat, less than an elephant...and not a damned pet. This could be the way to go. Thanks, K. I'll post the next drawing later...which will likely be the last. Then I'll move ahead.
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  #46  
Old 07-14-2012, 09:31 AM
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Re: Noah.

E, documented clues of Noah`s physical features, historical and mistical considerations... on and on should be useful to portray the caracter on your style. Now, I belive another great challege in front of you, maybe coming up with a convincing artifact not taking up too many similarities of say your Farmer sculpture, this time just holding a board on one hand, an axe in the other, with a
variation, a body accident down the navel... Good luck, interesting challenge !
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  #47  
Old 07-14-2012, 01:59 PM
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Re: Noah.

Okay...the version with the dove - the regarding of which is the extent of the contemplative act. It is not a bird, but it is wonder.

Though I wouldnt mind a small prop to activate compositionally accross from the bird. What might be in his hand at this moment?
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  #48  
Old 07-14-2012, 08:12 PM
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Re: Noah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
Okay...the version with the dove - the regarding of which is the extent of the contemplative act. It is not a bird, but it is wonder.

Though I wouldnt mind a small prop to activate compositionally accross from the bird. What might be in his hand at this moment?
Yes E,much betta !
What about reintroducing, the board element somehow, gesturing him as placing the dove on it, as epilogue of the arc construccion...

Last edited by Nelson : 07-15-2012 at 11:48 AM.
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  #49  
Old 07-15-2012, 10:36 PM
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Re: Noah.

In my opinion a synthesis of the two drawings would be ideal. I think a shirtless Noah is more desirable from both a narrative and aesthetic point of view. But I like the contemplating/wondering going on the second one, coupled with his sort-of-regarding the bird-- it's a nice touch. I'd keep that, but the question is where would you place the bird. On the board maybe, but then you'd have to turn his head, and show his face from profile which may or may not be desirable. Oh, and I'd keep the hammer as well.

Whatever you decide on, it will be a great Noah, no doubt about it.

Last edited by rika : 07-16-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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  #50  
Old 07-16-2012, 04:53 AM
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Re: Noah.

If your including the dove then a facial expression might be important, suprise and hope? possibly on his knees clasping the bird.
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