Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net  

Go Back  Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net > Sculpture Roundtable Discussions > Figurative Sculpture
User Name
Password
Home Sculpture Community Photo Gallery ISC Sculpture.org Register FAQ Members List Search New posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 02-18-2009, 09:57 PM
mountshang mountshang is offline
Level 8 user
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 235
Re: David

Here's a modern British "David" -- by Edward Bainbridge Copnall (1903-1973)

A saucy lad, wouldn't you say?

Copnall's most recent claim to fame was the controversy surrounding a crucifixion. In 2001, the pastor ordered it taken down from the church facade because it was scaring small children.

(Guess he would have removed Grunewald's painting, too, if he had that church in Colmar)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	copnall104.jpg
Views:	225
Size:	41.6 KB
ID:	10170  
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 02-18-2009, 10:14 PM
evaldart's Avatar
evaldart evaldart is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: easthampton, massachusetts
Posts: 5,637
Re: David

I DO like the tradition of the head on the ground, there. I'm goin that route fer sure (I get to make a severed head...bonus sculpture).
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 02-19-2009, 10:20 AM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,279
Re: David

At the heart of it all, I wonder at the appeal of the whole story. maybe it's just a guy thing or a violent vengeful female thing. Would it be an Amazon woman thing? Not gettin' it today...
__________________
Taking my own advice
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 02-19-2009, 11:02 AM
sculptor's Avatar
sculptor sculptor is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: IOWA
Posts: 1,493
Re: David

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
At the heart of it all, I wonder at the appeal of the whole story. maybe it's just a guy thing or a violent vengeful female thing. Would it be an Amazon woman thing? Not gettin' it today...
In all likelyhood:
"The Philistine" was probably killed by a fellow named Elhanan ...who, lacking political skills, faded into obscurity.
Meanwhile, the politically astute David rose to power in the Lands of the Israelites, and continued the wars of conquest against the Philistines (manifest destiny...etc. ...)
and
the (ever more grandiose) story accreted to him as Goliath(The Philistine) grew from 6ft 6 inches to 9 feet tall, and David morphed from "a young man" to a boy

"a guy thing"? really Grommecans
It's just a story of a warrior peoples displacing the indigenous peoples in their conquest of "The promised land"
....................................
I like the Amazon idea, but really, how far from the commonly accepted version of the story can you wander before the reference is lost?
I'm guessing that Randall(Landseer) would have the giant's head closely resembling the younger Bush----we could add a statue of the old man and set it on fire and incorporate 2 stories in one
.................................................. ........................................
fortunately, the Philistines being in large part a seafaring peoples ,who likely picked up the slack when the Minoan navy was wiped out by the eruption of the Aquateri (sp?) volcano and consequent tsunami, were able to flee to their western colonies(eg: Carthage)
...................
severed head-----with blood spewing from it like Cellini's Medusa?---------with Goliath's sword in hand?----what about "the Giant's body?... at 1.5 x the size of "David" the weight is "really jumping" now

as/re the sculpture as extant, I'm thinking, with the hips off center to the right, the torso needs a bend curving back over the center of gravity, unless as in Donatello's (unfortunately effeminate) David, David is leaning on Goliath's sword...
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 02-19-2009, 11:15 AM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,279
Re: David

Quote:
"a guy thing"? really Grommecans
It's just a story of a warrior peoples displacing the indigenous peoples in their conquest of "The promised land"
yeah, a guy thing, the muscle, prowess and gore of the whole thing. I'm not wearing my amazon woman garb today, so the whole of me asks why should I care? And of course i don't have to care, but then i want to know why you all care so much.The most interesting part to me is how a story mutates as it is retold to hold its audience. Truth is secondary where survival of the meat of the story and its entertainment value is the focus.
So then what happened to the head???
__________________
Taking my own advice
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 02-19-2009, 12:24 PM
evaldart's Avatar
evaldart evaldart is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: easthampton, massachusetts
Posts: 5,637
Re: David

Goliath's sword...why not...the more the merrier.

"Violence" is just another damned word. We use it to talk about bloody occurrences and boken things. Just language though.'
But the possibilities for "violence" as it get applied to aesthetics refer to dynamics...not horror, pain, war, injustice. And dynamics can neither good nor bad (But they can be effective or ineffective).
So this story about David contains huge weapons, severed heads, slingshots, projectiles, the hustling, bustling, relinquishing and relaxing of arms, legs and thoraxes. Its all a grand mess from which an artist might select pieces for formal composition.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 02-19-2009, 02:37 PM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,279
Re: David

so you're a dynamics whore?
dancing, sports, sex, taffy pulling, aerobics, yoga, toenail trimming, a swapmeet, bathing a reluctant dog, and making huge cakes can all involve dynamic poses. It's you making the choice, or not making the choice. Are you relegated to gruff violence because you neglected to use your indoor voice once too often? Is it just easier to stick with these themes so people won't have expectations of civility? ( mind you, civility is highly over-rated)
That's a throw-away answer, but if it makes you happy...
here's another bullshit answer-- boys will be boys... so you're into war, huh?
__________________
Taking my own advice
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 02-19-2009, 03:54 PM
evaldart's Avatar
evaldart evaldart is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: easthampton, massachusetts
Posts: 5,637
Re: David

Aw c'mon, war is just a silly thing the ants do. And "civility" is what the neckties say when they want to pretend they care about other people. We artists, needn't bother with it. And action (response) or stasis (resolve) are only tools for visualities. Sources for inspiration are EVERYWHERE (even inside your own skull). Any artist bent on producing needs little encouragement from the story of the human race. But a particularly lending narrative can help clarify decisions...get you to the action more readily.

Last edited by evaldart : 02-19-2009 at 04:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 02-19-2009, 04:55 PM
grhb grhb is offline
Level 6 user
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Posts: 112
Re: David

"violence is just language....select pieces for a formal composition." Nice! A statement bookended by derridean moral relativism and freakin' clive bell. You, you, you, you, you can't do that.

Back to this David thing:

Whatís with the bad-ass Dave anyway? I thought the story was about finesse, about underestimating your opponent? Bursting veins and rippling abs , thatís the Philistine. Fay Dave if he wasnít fay, was a technologist, not a superhero.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:03 PM
evaldart's Avatar
evaldart evaldart is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: easthampton, massachusetts
Posts: 5,637
Re: David

No. the story is about unforseen triumph...which I see as VERY relevent to the pursuit of pertinent sculpture.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:13 PM
GlennT's Avatar
GlennT GlennT is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,213
Re: David

Before youse guys tried to confuse the issue, (except e gets to it in the previous post) I thought the story of David and Goliath was about how a person who lets God be the doer within them, rather than the human ego, can triumph over seemingly incredible odds.

Focusing on the violence is missing the point, unless you are inclined to make that the point, the reason for which escapes me.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:19 PM
grhb grhb is offline
Level 6 user
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Posts: 112
Re: David

unforseen triumph --language is getting cloudy----

unforseen 'cause the tiny dude kicked the ass of the big dude.
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:25 PM
StevenW's Avatar
StevenW StevenW is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,320
Re: David

I'm liking this pantheon of robot junkmen more and more. Forget the narrative and keep working on the gesture, stance, intent,.. A moment of get some.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:29 PM
evaldart's Avatar
evaldart evaldart is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: easthampton, massachusetts
Posts: 5,637
Re: David

Quote:
Originally Posted by grhb View Post
unforseen triumph --language is getting cloudy----

unforseen 'cause the tiny dude kicked the ass of the big dude.
Nothing cloudy at all GR, the little guy kicked the big guys ass. As it MUST be.

As we approach our medium, if we must metaphor this, are we Goliath or David?
I imagine that it would always be better to be facing an insurmountable foe(pile of scrap) that presented a very real chance at "losing".. And after the violence, the blood, the fire and the gore...there is a sculpture. And THEN we can decide whether or not someone has won or lost.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:32 PM
grhb grhb is offline
Level 6 user
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Posts: 112
Re: David

you mean luck? You need to weld a few vegas chips onto that bad boy--maybe some chain mail made of nickels? You probably can't give him a JWHolmes' penis without agitating the locals, but that'd certainly connote luck.

All right. The feral idealization of a character that has often been portrayed as light loafer victor works--and I like the superhero approach because of its excess. When you can't seduce them with sublimity, knock 'em down with excess.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:40 PM
evaldart's Avatar
evaldart evaldart is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: easthampton, massachusetts
Posts: 5,637
Re: David

you're right about excess, its the ONLY route. But speaking it and DOING it are very different. Thats why sculpture is better that writing (and painting). Because of the DO -ing. Your body will tell you when its had enough sculpture for the day...and then you feed it and make it do some more. Excess.
Sculpture is not a game of chess or a poem sewn together with fibers or a shiny ornament.
Gravity is the killer...goddamned Gravity.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:41 PM
grhb grhb is offline
Level 6 user
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Posts: 112
Re: David

yeah, but that pile of scrap lost its battle freakin' years ago. Drawn outta the crust, crushed, acidified,boiled, extruded, erected, wrecked, snipped, crushed and kazaam you're askin' it to fight? That metal's exhausted.

You striking an arc, it's more like bein' a battlefield doctor patching up the wounded.

Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:51 PM
evaldart's Avatar
evaldart evaldart is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: easthampton, massachusetts
Posts: 5,637
Re: David

I like your style GR...hope you stick around.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:54 PM
grhb grhb is offline
Level 6 user
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Posts: 112
Re: David

The doing is cool. I'm also a fan of the dimensionality I call it frankenstein aesthetic. You make, it's there, it lives beside you, you walk into it, you need to get a bandage. The fact that it takes up space, air, means you have to negotiate with it, another being.


It's also what marginalizes it.

Sculpture may be an orphaned art--few want to do kabuki with it--but it will never disappear. I don't think the same will be said about painting or photography.

Course I say that, but I'm sure some jackass will create holograph scultpure you can turn on during cocktail parties and off at night.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 02-19-2009, 06:14 PM
evaldart's Avatar
evaldart evaldart is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: easthampton, massachusetts
Posts: 5,637
Re: David

The doing is everything and the jackasses will do all kinds of nonsense...not our business. Matter is our business.
Check your levels...they need to be on "11" regularly.
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 02-19-2009, 07:26 PM
grhb grhb is offline
Level 6 user
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Quebec City, Canada
Posts: 112
Re: David

Looked under the faqs, what the heck is a level?
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 02-20-2009, 12:12 AM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,279
Re: David

Quote:
But a particularly lending narrative can help clarify decisions...get you to the action more readily.
to paraphrase..
when i don't feel like thinking 'cause it makes my brain hurt, i use any handy story with a some action.

(You know I'm just hassling you; anything that keeps the furnace going is fair game.)
__________________
Taking my own advice
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 02-20-2009, 04:38 AM
Aaron Schroeder's Avatar
Aaron Schroeder Aaron Schroeder is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Shelby, Ohio
Posts: 856
Re: David

Grommet, we are the way we are because of natural selection. Who selected us to be this way ? You girls designed us to fight so that you don't have to, then you complain, go figure.

It's way complicated and you know that. Look within before you place blame without. Man is the most violent critter in the Kingdom for a reason. Girls hate bears and lions and all monsters, so they designed an even badder bad ass that can take them on. Can't you see that ?

I'm a man.....but I can change......if I have too.....I guess.

Question your sisters !!!
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 02-20-2009, 06:33 AM
Portoro Portoro is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 342
Re: David

Nah – let’s not blame natural selection for the choices we make. And as for ‘you girls designed us to fight’ – its only morons who need to fight. Us intelligent guys don’t need to do that, and I hope most artists can be included in that. Fighting is how dumb people manage their relationship with others (of course, if you are one of those dumb guys you’ll not get any of this), and at a political level, the worst of it is psychosis not Darwinism. Which is why Glenn may be right (see above) to emphasise other things that the story is doing.
__________________
The forum member formerly known as Cantab

Last edited by Portoro : 02-20-2009 at 07:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 02-20-2009, 08:07 AM
StevenW's Avatar
StevenW StevenW is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,320
Re: David

hmm, lady Macbeth syndrome... He dishonored me, so in effect dishonored you, so you must kill him for me to preserve your honor.. This is not how David arrived. David was more like Thoreau, he just wanted to be left alone, let the ants do what they will as long as it doesn't affect me.

It should be remembered that Goliath had already slain the best that the Israelites had to offer and David was the bottom of the barrel so to speak, both in physical and moral terms. He was no hero and no dummy and his courage was not defined by himself or god, but rather by circumstance. When the ants finally came to his picnic, he stood up and the rest is history..
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Sculpture Community, Sculpture.net
International Sculpture Center, Sculpture.org
vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Russ RuBert