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  #51  
Old 09-15-2010, 10:51 AM
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cheesepaws cheesepaws is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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Maybe it takes a healthy ego not to give up or one that can recognize their own strengths and weaknesses or even roll with the punches.
Exactly. Drive originates from ego.
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  #52  
Old 09-15-2010, 01:54 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Okay, I'll buy that Cheese.
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  #53  
Old 09-16-2010, 04:14 AM
scrapartoz scrapartoz is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

I dont have the experience of u guys but I can relate to the ongoing challenge to enter and 'win ' against a more difficult quest each time.
If I succeed in a work that most think is ' good ', then there is no joy in me building ten of these items. that time has past. like 'water under the bridge'. It is the fear, the challenge and the desire to win against the subject and materials that atracts me, and makes me satisfied if i succeed. I have simple needs and another job so I dont think badly of artists who need to make copies to put food on the table. But for me at the moment the 'next big thing' has to be harder or in a new area that challenges or scares me. I truly believe that 'artistic talent' will add only 10-15% to the current project. Its hard work , support from family . enough time , correct tools , adequate trade skills , sufficient suitable materials , money for consumables and a unquenchable desire to succeed that will produce a 'purty thang' of some artistic signifigance.
Most of us will do this ...not for money but for, that unique feeling we get that is satisfying and addictive and does not require any input from the viewer. the 'high' is present long before someone says they approve of your work.
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  #54  
Old 09-16-2010, 05:19 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Well said Scrap.!!!
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  #55  
Old 09-16-2010, 06:27 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

disagree, cheese.
I think drive is a survival instinct that has less to do with ego and more to do with finding a mentally and physically sustaining situation. Ego comes in when you want more than 'enough'.
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  #56  
Old 09-16-2010, 06:33 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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I truly believe that 'artistic talent' will add only 10-15% to the current project.
But that 10-15%, Evald's 12.3% is what makes a work ARt. Hard work is a given. Without it there will be no art. But "talent" or whatever we call it is the, that unpalpable thing, the spark is that will let the artist "see" the window of opportunity beyond hard work. The window is narrow and fleeting, most of time goes unnoticed. Hard workers will never notice the spark.
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  #57  
Old 09-16-2010, 06:57 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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disagree, cheese.
I think drive is a survival instinct that has less to do with ego and more to do with finding a mentally and physically sustaining situation. Ego comes in when you want more than 'enough'.
But your qualifiers of "a mentally and physically sustaining situation' or attaining "enough" are defined personally and are based largely on what you think you deserve rather than some elemental survivalist need. This is one reason why needs change - we expect more of ourselves. I'll respectively disagree - drives are dictated by ego.
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  #58  
Old 09-16-2010, 07:38 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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But your qualifiers of "a mentally and physically sustaining situation' or attaining "enough" are defined personally and are based largely on what you think you deserve rather than some elemental survivalist need. This is one reason why needs change - we expect more of ourselves. I'll respectively disagree - drives are dictated by ego.
still disagree. rather than the notion of "deserve" and expectations (which I don't subscribe to) is the notion of an individual's personal limits. As in I have done all I am able, if this is life, i don't want it. Change, or check out.
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  #59  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:05 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

I disagree. I think the nimblethrobit when axiomated to the nth flarftron....ooops, wrong conversation!
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  #60  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:27 AM
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cheesepaws cheesepaws is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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still disagree. rather than the notion of "deserve" and expectations (which I don't subscribe to) is the notion of an individual's personal limits. As in I have done all I am able, if this is life, i don't want it. Change, or check out.
But how do you not equate the "personal" in "personal limits" with ego?
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  #61  
Old 09-16-2010, 10:11 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Aaah, the struggle for definitions. As much as we "communicate" during the frudge we yet still cannot agree. Language (groaned or scratched) is poor when it only exchanges information, it is good when it causes the picturesque but it is best when it shatters the backwards-ness of articulation and, in opposite fashion, permits outrageous interpretational ephemera.
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  #62  
Old 09-16-2010, 11:48 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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outrageous interpretational ephemera
That is what I look for in art. I don't care if the person is over rated, or talented, though both are usually obvious. That too is why realism is so boring...its over rated but under arted.
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  #63  
Old 09-16-2010, 12:02 PM
rika rika is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Joe, they're gonna get you with their calipers for that one, for sure!
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  #64  
Old 09-16-2010, 12:44 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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That is what I look for in art. I don't care if the person is over rated, or talented, though both are usually obvious. That too is why realism is so boring...its over rated but under arted.
Joe, Why do you think "outrageous interpretational ephemera" and realism are mutually exclusive ? I am thinking of Salvador Dali... and others.

G
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  #65  
Old 09-16-2010, 12:51 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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outrageous interpretational ephemera
Another great name for a rock band!

jOe, saying that is what you look for in art helps me to understand you better. We are definitely looking for different things in art. While I can appreciate a good OIE experience when it occurs, I prefer insightful or beautiful or inspiring or mysterious or aesthetically captivating interpretational ephemeral.
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  #66  
Old 09-16-2010, 01:03 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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Originally Posted by Giotto View Post
Joe, Why do you think "outrageous interpretational ephemera" and realism are mutually exclusive ? I am thinking of Salvador Dali... and others.

G
Yes Giotto, if one does it well, like any other approach into the elevated realm of the episode of creative intensity, the realism can damned sure kick butt.
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  #67  
Old 09-16-2010, 01:16 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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We are definitely looking for different things in art. .....I prefer insightful or beautiful or inspiring or mysterious or aesthetically captivating interpretational ephemeral.
Nah, we are looking for the same buzz. We just "define" boring differently.

As to Dali, he is one of the few "famous" artists I've never enjoyed .
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  #68  
Old 09-16-2010, 03:52 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

"Is tallent overated" Not if it is real.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OcQ9A-5noM
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  #69  
Old 09-16-2010, 06:12 PM
scrapartoz scrapartoz is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Springfield
My wife and i watched your post of Susan Boyle. After we had wiped the tears from our eyes i wondered why i was effected that way. On reflection I came to the realization that we were jumping through hoops for the TV producers in a very predictable way. . The judges didnt 'know' ,the public 'didnt know' but the producers, cameramen and crew did.( that is why they filmed the arrogant, predictable pre judging of the act based on her age,accent , build and beauty) It was not her indesputable talent alone that engaged the most of the world.
It was her triumph over adversity that had enabled someone' like her' to rise up and shine. All of us secretly knew that her road to this point would have been littered with scars and barbs.( many would identify with her) My wife made the comment that if she was beautiful and young we would allready know of her as a star...I had to agree.
We had a strange situation In Australia some time back where a very beautiful model was arrested and imprisoned in Indonesia for drug trafficking. The amount of people that believed she was innocent based purely on her beauty amazed me " Just look at her..she cant be a drug courier"
I feel we are programmed to think and feel in very predictable ways.
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  #70  
Old 09-16-2010, 09:57 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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Originally Posted by grommet
still disagree. rather than the notion of "deserve" and expectations (which I don't subscribe to) is the notion of an individual's personal limits. As in I have done all I am able, if this is life, i don't want it. Change, or check out.
Quote:
But how do you not equate the "personal" in "personal limits" with ego?
unrelated to arbitrary mental limits about what you/one will or won't do. Rather, doing all that can be done without thought of how you might benefit from it personally.
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  #71  
Old 09-16-2010, 10:35 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Do you guys really do all this thinking about what level of this and that aspect of however is gonna do this thing and that?

Just make the Art!!!
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  #72  
Old 09-17-2010, 03:30 AM
scrapartoz scrapartoz is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Glenn , u talkin 2 me? I been at the shed all day workin on da boid.
( hollywood brooklyn accent ?) I loved your cable idea it woz my initial plan but i dont got the ability or logistics to make it happen.
cheers.a
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  #73  
Old 09-17-2010, 07:14 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

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Originally Posted by GlennT View Post
Do you guys really do all this thinking about what level of this and that aspect of however is gonna do this thing and that?

Just make the Art!!!
yes, and i can do both; yay, me...
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  #74  
Old 09-17-2010, 07:58 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Here is what I'm getting at:

You can have talent, you can have drive, you can have ego, you can have ambition, you can have next to nothing, you can have a lot of something, look-whaddya talk whaddya talk whaddya talk-he's a what? he's a what? He's a music man!

What matters is... what you do with all of that? Are you using your talent merely to repeat the same mistakes over and over or be the world's greatest one-note samba? Are you pushing your lack of talent so hard that you are developing talent? Are you acknowledging that you have an ego, and than surrendering that ego to something greater so as to accomplish a grand vision that transcends the ego? You have all sorts of tools (some of which you can call "talent") in your physical/psycho/spiritual make-up, are you taping into them fully, and using them wisely?
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  #75  
Old 09-17-2010, 08:12 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

I agree with all that Glenn except the question of using your potential "wisely". The boundaries of the "wise" might be the very thing that holds an artist back. The best stuff you do, the greatest progress you make will be accomplished by doing something that perhaps seemed "UNwise" in relation to the "good-sense" that wishes to drive our existence. Its it wise to make a twenty foot sculpture in a studio with 15 foot ceilings....NO. But it can be done...so instead of doing the "wise" thing, and shrinking your idea down 5 feet (effectively killing the art) you make the whole process an ungainly ordeal that cause all kinds of logistical and physical nightmares. But in the end, the sculpture is what it HAD to be...and you, the maker, prevailed by the seeing-through of it all.

Last edited by evaldart : 09-17-2010 at 09:43 AM.
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