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  #1  
Old 07-05-2006, 05:25 PM
mark pilato mark pilato is offline
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what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Should we as artist in this day and time be sculpting works that show our feelings about the war? I know a lot of you will fire back and say its up to the artist. But is it? is it our responsibility to do so?
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Old 07-05-2006, 05:44 PM
toyholic toyholic is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark pilato
Should we as artist in this day and time be sculpting works that show our feelings about the war? I know a lot of you will fire back and say its up to the artist. But is it? is it our responsibility to do so?

I think if you already do work that is similar it fits right in. I do work about landmines, animal rights and my hatred for government in general . I do it to educate others about views that people may not see everyday.
I don't think it;s my responsibility to do it, but it is enjoyable and always a quick sell.
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Old 07-05-2006, 06:24 PM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

I express my feeling through my sculptures, and I think many artists do. I do feel about human carnage, and about man-made disasters, and I do express them. My recent one to be displayed soon at a public Show, is shown below. Hope you like it.

Did I do this because it is my responsibility? To be frank, I really do not know, as this is getting to be a philosophical question. It depends on whether one takes the word 'responsibility' to mean an inner innate drive as a human being towards humanity, or some would say towards the creator, or God.
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Last edited by Merlion : 07-05-2006 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 07-05-2006, 06:46 PM
mark pilato mark pilato is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

I do like it i wish I could see it bigger. When you sculpt are you a part of the form? Can you bring yourself to be the sculpture? Do you look out side of yourself when you are there and see what is around you? It looks like you do.
all the best,
mark
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Old 07-05-2006, 06:53 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

I donít feel itís an issue of "responsibility," but rather if the artist is an "opportunist" or not.

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Old 07-05-2006, 07:24 PM
mark pilato mark pilato is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Raven, not sure I know what you are suggesting. Are you saying if say someone does a piece on war, for or against - it would be only for the opportunity of getting recognized. If so i think that that person would have failed before they started.
again I am not sure what "opportunist" suggest can you clarify?
all the best,
Mark

Last edited by mark pilato : 07-05-2006 at 08:00 PM.
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  #7  
Old 07-05-2006, 08:44 PM
ironman ironman is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Hi, my sculptures come from within, I try to express my feelings that way. I am not political (in my artwork, at least) and whatever you try to do the most important thing is to be true to yourself!
If you feel that you must express yourself politically, then by all means do so, but if you're forcing the issue, do the art that's TRUE TO YOU and be political in some other way.
Have a great day,
Jeff
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2006, 09:31 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark pilato
I do like it i wish I could see it bigger. When you sculpt are you a part of the form? Can you bring yourself to be the sculpture? Do you look out side of yourself when you are there and see what is around you? It looks like you do.
Did you click on the thumbnail image, Mark? And do you still like to see more details?

When I sculpt the person in agony, I did have this feeling generally, as this has to come from the heart. But of course artistically I tried to make the artwork as expressive, as high intensity as I could. This means full of tension in the muscles, both hands covering the face, and the whole body squeezed as small as possible.

Did I look outside of myself? As you noticed, I did, very much so. I casted my thoughts as wide and as far back in time as I could. This means the whole evolution of the human species, from the living species, starting from a primeval or primordal ooze.

These are concepts. After this, the tough task was to express all these skillfully as an artwork. Actually there were mistakes, accidents and compromises along the way. These were agoniising in themselves, to a certain extent, some blood, sweat and tears.
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Last edited by Merlion : 07-06-2006 at 04:43 AM.
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  #9  
Old 07-06-2006, 05:32 AM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

In the UK there is a long tradition of ‘war artists’, who have been employed by the Ministry of Defence to record, in art form, their sense of what war is and does. Similarly, if we look at early Henry Moore, say, we can also see a real interest in war and its effects. Moore’s drawings, etchings and sculptures offer, as well as a view of war, a perspective on human nature and the consequences of being human. Great art needs inspiration.
I also think that many artists pitch their work in the social context in which they live. For them, art is not just about 'personal feelings' or 'expressing oneself'. It has to be relevant and play a part. And perhaps if we feel strongly about something, it SHOULD show up in our work. Art must not get trapped in the purely aesthetic, otherwise it is just decoration, something nice for the garden or the lounge. Escapism, even.
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  #10  
Old 07-06-2006, 07:05 AM
mark pilato mark pilato is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

very nice, Cantab, very nice, great examples of art in this context - I also agree with you on Moore - I had the chance to see some of his drawings just last week at a collectors house. Not only was Moore a great man he was also a very humble man. Just recently David Finn photographed my work he was Moore's photographer and new him well. This gave me an inside glimpse of the man and i was even more blown away by him - his tunnel drawings are chilling, have you seen them?.
all the best,
Mark
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  #11  
Old 07-06-2006, 10:21 AM
sylviadkalinta sylviadkalinta is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

The word "Responsiblity" has to be first understood and well taken into cognisance before the Question can be answered.To me our works should portray idealism and realism which is a picture of what we feel and already know in our sub-concious mind. War is what we have seen and feel so, we can make our work display the pains and values of war and that is our responsibility to help poeple see their imaginations and thoughts in reality on wood, steel,paintings and e.tc.Anyone that shears my view can reach me also on sylvia_doug@yahoo.com


Sylvia D.
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2006, 02:17 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark pilato
Raven, not sure I know what you are suggesting. Are you saying if say someone does a piece on war, for or against - it would be only for the opportunity of getting recognized. If so i think that that person would have failed before they started.
again I am not sure what "opportunist" suggest can you clarify?
all the best,
Mark
Being an oppertunist isn't a bad thing. It is mearly someone who sees the oppertunity and takes it. Many great things have come from oppertunists. I am not an oppertunists therefore feel I miss out sometimes.
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2006, 05:02 PM
mark pilato mark pilato is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Ravon, as artist should we not sculpt from the heart in a place that is honest in hopes that others will also see- not for gain but simple truth to convey. I am a sculptor I can say this because it what I do. I have been sculpting since I was a boy. Sometimes there is no other way for me but to act, to put voice to what I feel inside. For me to think of sculpting a piece because there is a war only for the opportunity, well i would be like an arms dealer. To sculpt a piece and give voice to the feelings that are inside is the artist way. To scream - to yell - to cry it out. Who else to do it but us. Get those feeling out - draw them - paint them - sculpt them - its the arts that show the way. Don't look for opportunity to speak what you feel- act - because its the right thing to do.
Ravon, you have a art school- is it only for the opportunity to make money or do you it because you love it? I think its because you love it, and its what you were born to do. So speak without the guilt of opportunity.
again sorry for spelling and poor writing I am dyslexic so this stuff is hard.
all the best ,
Mark
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  #14  
Old 07-06-2006, 06:18 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

It seems to be a historical fact that artists have often (along with our literary brothers) been the documentarians of war. (and other human events) Whether it has been as propagandists supporting a regime, glorifying certain ideals supposed to be connected to war...or...as opponents of war, showing its horrors and atrocities...artists, and in recent years photojournalists/videographers too, have been the eyes of society...seeing what would ordinarily not be seen.

The issue of reponsibility is a recent one. Only in the past century and a half, as the role of the fine artist has morphed from commissioned artist for hire by patrons with specific purposes (religious, political, social) into more of a vestigal one, now producing the art first and looking for an interested dilettante or gallery, has this way of viewing artists gained any meaning. The few remaining private/civic/governmental organs that still commission work do so with hardly the same vigor or purposes as once was true in the past...still they are a ghost of a reminder of the rationale that drove the arts for millenia. So, the idea and precedent is still new...given the entirety of artistic endeavors. Maybe a fine tuning of the topic would help.

Is it a question of purely an 'artistic responsibility' merely because we have creative abilities or is there a deeper aspect to be divined? I wouldn't think that just the possession of artistic talent is a reason in and of itself any more than a movie star having a willing audience gives them the responsibility of speaking about an issue whether they have any real knowledge of it our not. (how often does that happen?)

I would say if there is a responsibility, it would be foremost to educate oneself about the subject being portrayed or conceptualized. If an artist does choose to do something of a expository nature...it shouldn't be from merely a knee jerk, uninformed place. That does little good other than perpetuate the ignorance that is rampant already about so many issues. In the past artists followed a tradition and kept their work to guidelines set forth by whatever patron was funding their work (in most cases)...amounting to the same sort of perpetuation of ignorance...or at best only told one particular side of a situation. As members of the greatest information age ever, if we have a responsibility it is, in my opinion, to try and be more truthful and less opinionated. Create art not just because we 'like' or 'dislike' something...but because we have taken the time to really understand an issue or thing...whatever it may be.
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Old 07-06-2006, 07:10 PM
anatomist1 anatomist1 is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonGillespie
I would say if there is a responsibility, it would be foremost to educate oneself about the subject being portrayed or conceptualized. If an artist does choose to do something of a expository nature...it shouldn't be from merely a knee jerk, uninformed place. That does little good other than perpetuate the ignorance that is rampant already about so many issues.
I disagree with this, mostly. What art has to offer people is more about emotion or gut-level impression. If you want to present a balanced, informed exposition with issue analysis, write an article or blog. In general, I think art or music that tries to be about politics or anything else too complicated or heady usually fails for me, especially if it contains overt symbolism or some kind of 'deep' concept the audience is supposed to figure out. I usually find it insulting to my intelligence. Unless you live in the war zone, I don't think you have any business making art about war. It will be obvious it's coming from some kind of contrived intellectual place and not from your gut. If the war is having some kind of direct impact on your life, aside from something you are experiencing through mass media, and you make something about that impact specifically, it might be real and powerful, but it probably won't seem 'political'.
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Old 07-07-2006, 01:13 AM
G. Murdoch G. Murdoch is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Back in 97 or 98? a Leonardo Da Vinci exhibit was at the Royal Museum in Victoria, B.C. for a couple of months. I went 4 times. Initially I was disappointed by the lack of fine art, and the preponderance of drawings and scale models. On subsequent visits to the exhibit, I read a lot of the text that accompanied the visuals, and was surprised to learn that the exhibit was a fairly accurate representation of Leonardo's carreer. The man produced a relatively small body of fully complete fine art works. He recieved much more work as a military engineer, designing fortifications, battlements, engines of war, catapults, bridges, etc...

Of course he was also a prolific journaler and sketcher, producing literally thousands of drawings of a huge variety, with a special abundance of drawings of flowing water, and birds (he was fascinated by fluid dynamics and flight).

I realise I am off the original topic of this thread, assuming we are meant to discuss the current conflict in Iraq, and the wider "war on terror". Personally I like Blake's sculptures (they often appear at the top of the screen for this forum).

I don't believe that artists have any particular responsibility to address political issues. I do believe that any individual artist who feels deeply enough about anything (political or not) has a responsibility to render thier feelings in thier medium of choice. Generally speaking, the inspiration for political artworks must be emotionally compelling, rather than cerebral abstract, for the finished work to be emotionally compelling for the viewer. There are many journalists who are very well equipped by the nature of thier chosen media to present cerebral, logical, rhetorical arguments about current events.

Graham
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Old 07-07-2006, 02:43 AM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark pilato
(Moore's) his tunnel drawings are chilling, have you seen them?.
all the best,
Mark
Yes, Mark. An impressive body of work. I have actually been as impressed by Moore's drawings and etchings as his sculpture.
Good Moore image search:
http://www.picsearch.com/search.cgi?q=henry+moore+
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Old 07-07-2006, 03:07 AM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

[quote=JasonGillespie]I wouldn't think that just the possession of artistic talent is a reason in and of itself any more than a movie star having a willing audience gives them the responsibility of speaking about an issue whether they have any real knowledge of it our not. [quote]

This is an interesting point. For some reason we have come to expect 'serious' artists and writers to maintain a relationship with truth, and to use their art at times to advance what they see as right. Hence we may expect a Picasso to offer a perspective/response to war (Guernica), but not Tom Cruise. Also, we tend to regard art that is not serious as somehow devalued in the process, calling such work 'pot boilers' or 'pulp fiction'. So, if seriousness/truth are linked in our minds with great art perhaps we do expect our artists at times to step out of the studio and get their emotional hands dirty.

Didn't the Renaissance also establish artists (and their art) at the vanguard of change? Isn't the artist a kind of hero to some? An eternal critic of the status quo? (See Pop art in the Sixties and Brit Art in the Nineties). We cannot insist on a 'responsibility' here, but we do look to artists and writers for alternatives to orthodoxy. Hirst has attacked the consumer culture with some force in his work. Why not attack the trashy outcomes of political activity? If your'e good enough!!

Last edited by Cantab : 07-07-2006 at 04:21 AM.
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Old 07-07-2006, 08:29 AM
robertpulley robertpulley is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Anatomist1 pretty much said it for me. Make art, not war.

I said in an earlier post though that art seems to be on a continuum of content/ meaning. I see visual puns, jokes, illustrations, exercises in composition, prettiness, exercises in ego, all the way to work that amazes, confounds and awes. You speak with the voice you were given and tell the truth that is within you. I like a good joke, but I'm not any good at telling them. I don't think I could make a work about war much less this war particularly that would be more profound than work that I do on a regular basis.
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Old 07-07-2006, 01:12 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

undefinedMy view is that our (sculptors) responsibilties towards such questions are the same as everybodies: we have to stop at red lights just like anyone else. As for special efforts, one need only to think of past efforts by truly big names like Goya to try to express something about feelings towards war. All these things like Goya's etchings are regarded as art objects, with little thought for the message. What I think an artist can contribute is a sense that there are better things in life than hate.
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Old 07-07-2006, 05:51 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

It is actually quite simple to analyse. All human being has a moral responsibility towards things that are wrong in our society and our world, including wars. But when the person has special endowments and abilities, including artistic skills, the responsibility is heavier.
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Last edited by Merlion : 07-08-2006 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 07-07-2006, 08:24 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

I think creating art that represents values and ideals that flourish in peacetime can send just as powerful a message as art that illustrates the consequences and negativity of war.
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Old 07-07-2006, 09:03 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

I would say that sculpting skill is just another tool in one's pack, like a writer's talents to wordsmith a biting commentary or an orator's gifts to sway the minds of a crowd. Imagine if Hitler had focused his persuasive skills to improve the world, instead of trying to take it over and exterminate the Jews. What we do with our talents is entirely up to us as individuals. I don't know that there is any particular responsibility that should be added to the conscience of someone who can sculpt. It is just another venue to share one's views and perceptions of the world around us.
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Old 07-08-2006, 09:28 AM
JaxKit JaxKit is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Personally, I believe when art becomes my 'voice' that displays in public and influence minds and thoughts, than there comes some responsibility how I should chose to voice my opinions thru art. Do I present my voice in a fair and educated manner?? is it true to my concience at the same time?? Question I ask myself often.

While war represents destructions, loss of lives, all the ungly side of human nature, there're also strength of human spirit, such as love, compassion, sacrafices, courage that shines thru at times of such chaos. I would prefer to chose the latter as my voice.

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Old 07-08-2006, 03:11 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark pilato
as artist should we not sculpt from the heart in a place that is honest in hopes that others will also see-
I don't think it has to be a separate thing. In other words, I don't think if a artist is an opertunist by nature that doesn't make his work devoid of feeling.
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