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  #51  
Old 09-07-2008, 09:12 AM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: conceptal art

From its Duchampian and Dadaist roots, through its Fluxus introduction, and the general performance-based brouhahas, and the, good-god dont give them a video camera... the term "conceptual art" is arguably as meaningless as anythying else the posing shortcutters wish to use to prove they are indeed creative. The fact that there is more and more of it out there - in all its fiegned anti-commercial glory - to ignore, is a statement about the whole business of it. Cliques, clubs, manifestos, spectacles - its an art subculture of would-be creators gulliblizing its sad public. Again though, there will be individuals that can do it right. Your good sense will find them.
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  #52  
Old 09-07-2008, 10:28 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: conceptal art

something I appreciated recently from a younger person who felt inspired...

She wrote thought provoking journal-type musings and sometimes drawings on smaller pieces of paper and tucked them in books at the library. They read as treats in the books, not as discarded bits, and also made good bookmarks, to be viewed repeatedly. I thought it was simple, but with the potential to change the mood and mindset in a much wider area.
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  #53  
Old 09-07-2008, 03:42 PM
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JasonGillespie JasonGillespie is offline
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Re: conceptal art

Quote:
From its Duchampian and Dadaist roots, through its Fluxus introduction, and the general performance-based brouhahas, and the, good-god dont give them a video camera... the term "conceptual art" is arguably as meaningless as anythying else the posing shortcutters wish to use to prove they are indeed creative.
The meaninglessness of the word "conceptual" is relative to the generational deterioration of the idea within the movement. You see the first generation of artists authentically reacting to previous movements and creating work that has the vitality of that origin moment. It is only as each successive generation has continued to create under the umbrella of that idea that it becomes less and less potent...watered down...until the name is really just an identifier in many cases. This is true in every movement and in most semi-organized groupings of creative people. The purity of purpose in the first one or two generations is hard to shore up....when the legitimacy of the act is overshadowed by the profit available to those who would come after and use it as a means to build livelihoods for themselves. (This last sentence is not an attack on making money...rather, it is speaking to the commercialization of fine art and how that changes the creative choices artists make.)


Quote:
The fact that there is more and more of it out there - in all its fiegned anti-commercial glory - to ignore, is a statement about the whole business of it. Cliques, clubs, manifestos, spectacles - its an art subculture of would-be creators gulliblizing its sad public.
"Anti-commercial glory"?.....that is just the PR....the business is the thing....though not at first. Creation as a means to an end or creation as the end itself? The "Cliques, clubs, manifestos, spectacles" aren't the problem. Most movements have some exclusivity to them for survival purposes..so they aren't lumped in with everyone else. The problem, in my opinion, comes when they exist not as a means of ensuring the survival of a new way of creating, but instead become the means of perpetuating a brand...a commodity masquerading as an art form. In the end you are mostly correct...the public can end up the loser.
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  #54  
Old 09-08-2008, 05:14 PM
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Re: consentual art

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Originally Posted by JasonGillespie View Post
The problem, in my opinion, comes when they exist not as a means of ensuring the survival of a new way of creating,
but instead become the means of perpetuating a brand...a commodity masquerading as an art form.
This is a very interesting thought, which can also be applied to the art of object makers
who's work populate collectors residences, corporate collections and museums.
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  #55  
Old 09-08-2008, 06:31 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: conceptal art

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonGillespie View Post
The meaninglessness of the word "conceptual" is relative to the generational deterioration of the idea within the movement. You see the first generation of artists authentically reacting to previous movements and creating work that has the vitality of that origin moment. It is only as each successive generation has continued to create under the umbrella of that idea that it becomes less and less potent...watered down...until the name is really just an identifier in many cases. This is true in every movement and in most semi-organized groupings of creative people. The purity of purpose in the first one or two generations is hard to shore up....when the legitimacy of the act is overshadowed by the profit available to those who would come after and use it as a means to build livelihoods for themselves. (This last sentence is not an attack on making money...rather, it is speaking to the commercialization of fine art and how that changes the creative choices artists make.)


"Anti-commercial glory"?.....that is just the PR....the business is the thing....though not at first. Creation as a means to an end or creation as the end itself? The "Cliques, clubs, manifestos, spectacles" aren't the problem. Most movements have some exclusivity to them for survival purposes..so they aren't lumped in with everyone else. The problem, in my opinion, comes when they exist not as a means of ensuring the survival of a new way of creating, but instead become the means of perpetuating a brand...a commodity masquerading as an art form. In the end you are mostly correct...the public can end up the loser.
So, in the end is your best bet to ignore everyone else and what they're doing and keep your head down & nose to the grindstone so there's no posing or feigning ignorance-- it's authentic ignorance? Just kidding, nobody ever said it was easy...
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  #56  
Old 09-08-2008, 09:09 PM
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Re: conceptal art

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So, in the end is your best bet to ignore everyone else and what they're doing and keep your head down & nose to the grindstone so there's no posing or feigning ignorance-- it's authentic ignorance? Just kidding, nobody ever said it was easy...

In the end, it turns out that Most of the stuff you thought was Art actually was NOT. You just have to be brave and confident enough to dismiss it...write-it-off. Its okay to grin at that other stuff knowingly and be amused - but you wont get very far by just taking the medicine...no matter WHERE it might be served-up.

And, in the end Art wont be for paying-attention-to at all; and it wont be for showing handiwork and it wont be for putting in your two cents and it wont even be for helping anyone make any money. In the end It CERTAINLY wont be for demonstrating a concept (or pretending to). Nope, everyone will just do Art all the time; too engrossed to bother with the absolute uniqueness being executed by the nieghbors. No hellos or byes - just churning creativity relevencing to greater and greater levels...ALL THE TIME.

We, within our ceilinged sensibility, cannot imagine this being desirable - but this is where it is going and its going to be your fault as much as mine (if we're any good, that is).
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  #57  
Old 09-08-2008, 09:21 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: conceptal art

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Nope, everyone will just do Art all the time; too engrossed to bother with the absolute uniqueness being executed by the nieghbors. No hellos or byes - just churning creativity relevencing to greater and greater levels...ALL THE TIME.
Matt? That doesn't sound like fun, it sounds like its own sort of drone-hood or madness. This is a good thing?
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  #58  
Old 09-08-2008, 09:22 PM
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JasonGillespie JasonGillespie is offline
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Re: conceptal art

Quote:
So, in the end is your best bet to ignore everyone else and what they're doing and keep your head down & nose to the grindstone so there's no posing or feigning ignorance-- it's authentic ignorance? Just kidding, nobody ever said it was easy...
The best antidote for the conceits of the art world is to know what is out there and what has come before...in my opinion. Knowing the counterfeit means knowing the real thing. To that end I've spent the better part of my life studying those who have exemplified the creative spirit and pushed themselves to be the best.....after 30 plus years of their company the posers are pretty easy to identify. Nothing worth doing is easy.....
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  #59  
Old 09-08-2008, 09:30 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: conceptal art

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Nothing worth doing is easy.....
The problem is there's also a lot of things that are not worth doing that are also not easy. I guess what I'm saying is to choose your challange from the right place.
Perhaps I am the only person with this experience here, in which case, please disregard the gibberish.
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  #60  
Old 09-08-2008, 09:31 PM
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Re: conceptal art

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Matt? That doesn't sound like fun, it sounds like its own sort of drone-hood or madness. This is a good thing?

WE like fun...but they wont. They wont have any use for it at all.
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  #61  
Old 09-08-2008, 09:31 PM
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racine racine is offline
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Re: conceptal art

its often interesting to see how art interacts with the public, conceptual is having its bit of limelight again as the press/public still enjoy being wound up, its a bit like rap/hip hop music etc, its been around twice longer than the kids that see it as the latest mode of annoying older generations.. same old stuff but fun and probably neccessary. same with artschool/gallery generated trend, conceptual conforms to the academic which has dogged art since forever. galleries in london now are so focused on whats happenning in art schools, picking their next 'stars' direct from graduation..or b4 , so that developement and that competitive energy is not allowed to evolve more naturally, hence a trend. its media friendly. as we know, better understanding of art evolves post art school, those nagging doubts get their chance too. underlying i wonder if theres another sub trend here as when artschools no longer require expensive tools and purpose studios and technicians it will be cheaper, maybe eco friendly.... like maybe in hong kong now...
overall im not against conceptual, it has its place and will attract the younger artists, but it is limited to the finite. it is only a title, part of a whole that when united with the other constituents or 'body' of art making may have the chance to go beyond itself.
i sound like those old buffers that i hated at artschool, i still think theyre old buffers. growth is better than limitation. titles are manacles..
and a question, if the avant garde is academic...is avant garde any more.. i thought the idea of avant garde died before i went to artschool... i still think that.

Last edited by racine : 09-08-2008 at 09:36 PM. Reason: forgot hip hop..
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