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  #1  
Old 04-13-2006, 10:25 AM
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Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Here is another sculptor making waves showing unusual sculptures of beautiful female celebrities.

Meet Kate Moss - contorted
Charlotte Higgins
Wednesday April 12, 2006

Marc Quinn's last sculpture transformed Alison Lapper - a woman lacking arms and fully developed legs - into a dramatic, powerful figure for Trafalgar Square. His new work, Sphinx, takes a woman of unearthly beauty and transforms her into a contorted figure with her ankles uncomfortably wrapped round her ears.

The work is Quinn's much anticipated sculpture of Kate Moss, seen here [in England] for the first time before going on view in the Netherlands this month.

"The two sculptures are really about the same thing: why we do, or do not, find a person beautiful," he said.

And no, Moss is not working up to an alternative career in extreme yoga. Though the body depicted is Moss's, and the hands and feet are life casts, another model was used to create the position. "I found a person who could do the yoga pose," said Quinn, "and we made a lot of drawings, photographs and measurements. Then Kate came into the studio. I'd done some life casts of her in the past, and we made more measurements and photos. From all that we sculpted Kate's body in the pose; this is her body and her proportions."
[snip]

Click here for the full news article from the Guardian. The article shows three photos of the sculpture, taken from the front, left and right. And if you would like to see the back view of this contorted figure sculpture, click here.

Last edited by Merlion : 04-13-2006 at 08:39 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-13-2006, 06:23 PM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Merlion thanks for posting, but in this case, I would much rather look at Blake's 1989 "Emerging Continents", thank you. It seems to me that Marc Quinn has simply found a formula for getting publicity for his work with this one.
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  #3  
Old 04-13-2006, 11:12 PM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZ
Merlion thanks for posting, but in this case, I would much rather look at Blake's 1989 "Emerging Continents", thank you. It seems to me that Marc Quinn has simply found a formula for getting publicity for his work with this one.
JAZ

I agree, JAZ.

Here, the artist is guilty of leaning heavily on narrative to lend undeserved momentum to the piece via, "Kate Moss."

I don't recognize the form as Kate Moss and without that label, what are we left with?

Apparently,
""Kate's body is perfect, but her problems with the press and drugs and so forth is her lost limb; the one imperfection that makes her more beautiful."

This is the sort of correlative thought that is absolutely required for the piece to be "successful."

Meet Jenny Smith - Contorted would never recieve this sort of attention.
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  #4  
Old 04-14-2006, 04:23 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

I view it this way. The sculptor Marc Quinn treated this sculpture seriously, and displayed good artstic and technical skills. It is an unusual contorted yoga pose but it does not make use of sex and violence related images to shock viewers and attract attention. For these, I respect him and this artwork from this point of view.

I myself may not do it if I were him. On the other hand, I see no reason to take a stand against him using a famous Kate Moss rather than a common 'Jenny Smith'.

Last edited by Merlion : 04-14-2006 at 10:37 AM.
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  #5  
Old 04-16-2006, 02:58 AM
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Smile Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

In China, many folk art will dead away very quickly. Because many and many people don't like the folk art. Why so? Because the art is common and described by many poeple use it and make it. What's wrong with China folk art?
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  #6  
Old 04-21-2006, 04:54 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

“The sculptor Marc Quinn treated this sculpture seriously, and displayed good artistic and technical skills” – Merlion.

I suspect that the technical skills deployed to create the Kate Moss piece may not be Marc Quinn’s at all, Merlion. When I was in Italy last year, on a visit to Pietrasanta, I came across the studio that was making the Alison Lapper sculpture for him! It was made, in fact, by a group of Italian craftsmen. I suspect that Quinn is one of many artists today, who ‘commission’ pieces, using photographs, maquettes or plaster models. (I also remember seeing a large marble hand being carved for Louise Bourgeois some years back, and then noticing it turn up with her name on it!). This may also explain the ‘anonymous’ character of the sculpting technique. These craftsmen are not artists, they are master stone carvers, and their work tends to lack individuality in technique. This is one of the reasons why I felt disappointed with the Lapper piece when it went on show in London. The IDEA is interesting, for about 2 minutes, but as a sculpture, it lacks character, and doesn’t move stone sculpture as a genre forward in any technical way whatsoever. Similarly, the Moss piece, - look at the hair, for instance – this is the work of the fine craftsman, who produces public monuments for a living. I might go as far as to say it is not art at all, but a branch of statuary, a skilfully executed idea and no more. (Perhaps we should shift this entry to the 'Is modern art a fraud?' thread!!!!)

Last edited by Cantab : 04-21-2006 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 04-21-2006, 07:40 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Cantab,

Thank you for your wonderful observation and I hope for some peoples enlightenment.
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  #8  
Old 04-21-2006, 08:10 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

I think we all know and do accept the fact that sculptors do outsource when doing big sculptures and/or those that require special facilities.

Normally sculptors are expected to do the final touch up to human figure sculptures. In the case of Marc Quinn, I know a bit of his previous works and gave the benefit of the doubt that he did in the case of this Kate Moss sculpture. I understand Cantab gave the benefit of the doubt that he did not. I may be wrong, but nobody would know for sure.
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  #9  
Old 04-21-2006, 09:11 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Yes, Merlion, there is a long tradition of artists using craftsmen. I don’t know enough about modern practices to say what happens nowadays. From art history, we know of the great masters using assistants as part of the business of manufacture. My understanding, with assistants, though, is that they learnt the trade by copying and learning from the master, and that the master would let proficient apprentices take some works to a late stage, and then personally add that touch of individuality and, maybe, genius that only the master possesses. Hence, making it his/hers. Henry Moore had a large band of assistants, too, I believe, and would, after planning, often have most of the work done in this way. I’m not inclined to think that Marc Quinn is doing this. He uses a range of media for his work, and I suspect that he is not a master in stone, anymore than any of the other media he uses. It was my feeling that the bland, anonymous nature of the carving pointed to this being purely the work of the Pietrasanta craftsmen. Technically, it's so like a million Madonnas and Pietas being run out in Pietrasanta and Carrara for the commercial market in Italy. Don’t know, though….
On the internet - is this the plaster model for the final work?
Attached Thumbnails
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Last edited by Cantab : 04-21-2006 at 09:38 AM.
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  #10  
Old 04-23-2006, 07:45 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

In an article I've just found - 'Kate Moss and the Death of British Art', by Jonathan Jones (in 'The Observer', UK newspaper), you may be interested in the following passage:
"Quinn's portrait of Moss is the kind of monstrosity that, if it were exhibited in Tate Britain as 150-year-old period puce, would give us a good laugh at the bad taste of the Victorian bourgeoisie before modernism came along to clear the cobwebs. But hang on - oh no! - this time we are the conservative public who mistake worthy content for worthwhile form. Quinn is an emotional guy, you see. He cared about Alison Lapper and he cares about Moss. His characterless artifact won't make any sense when her current notoriety is forgotten; a future art historian will have to dig out old newspapers to discover why this smooth, bland object was ever invested with meaning......Oh, it's so moving I want to cry. No, really, I want to cry. I used to think that British art was going somewhere."

I agree with some of this - worthy content does not make worthwhile form, a 'characterless artifact'.
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  #11  
Old 05-07-2007, 06:27 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

This life-size bronze Kate Moss in contorted yoga pose by Marc Quinn is now back in the news. There are by now a few of these bronze to be sold in New York, for a cool $2 m.

Kate Moss in knots? That’ll be £1million

4 May 2007, Seven sculptures of Kate Moss in yoga poses could fetch up to £1 million when they are sold in New York.

The bronzes, which include one of her with her legs stretched behind her head, went on display at the Mary Boone gallery in Manhattan.



They are by Marc Quinn, famous for his sculpture in Trafalgar Square of Alison Lapper, a woman without arms and fully developed legs, and are estimated to fetch £137,500 each.

The white-painted bronzes are part of the “Sphinx” exhibition - socalled because of Moss’s mysterious persona.
Although highly realistic, the sculptures are not portraits.

Quinn said they represent "an image, and the way it is twisted and sculpted by our collective desire". ...

The model did not get into the contortions herself - Quinn used her head and face but drew the positions from a yoga expert.
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  #12  
Old 05-07-2007, 06:44 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

We all have commented much on the subject of these statues so dependent on current tabloidica. This is just another. Another over-priced, under-sculpted thing designed to engage a viewer by means of name-recognition and some titilation. I guess its kind of amusing, but it doesn't look like her. I would much prefer the Giacometti version - elongated and monsterous, eliciting intensity, and scaring the hell outta me even without a face.
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  #13  
Old 05-07-2007, 07:47 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart
.. I guess its kind of amusing, but it doesn't look like her... .
I have no idea whether the portrait of the bronze looks like Kate Moss. So I checked as this is the best objective way.

Ok, based on these pictures of her, there is sufficient resemblance.

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Old 05-07-2007, 08:23 AM
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Thumbs down Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Shakespeare said it best:

Much ado about nothing.

Lou
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:13 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Right on, Tlouis, right on!!!!!!!!!
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  #16  
Old 05-07-2007, 09:20 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Well said, Tlouis.

What strikes me about this sculpture is that an attempt is made to sell it to the public on the basis of the beauty of the model. Yet this sculpture is mostly devoid of true beauty. There is no evidence that the artist understands beauty as an expression of the soul. With the possible exception of the toes, the surfaces are devoid of personality. The are modeled in such a bland and lifeless manner that they have all of the appeal of a store-window mannequinn. Beauty is not a sterile thing made of "perfect" surfaces. It involves the life-force which this sculpture clearly lacks.

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Old 05-07-2007, 12:31 PM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT
What strikes me about this sculpture is that an attempt is made to sell it to the public on the basis of the beauty of the model. Yet this sculpture is mostly devoid of true beauty. There is no evidence that the artist understands beauty as an expression of the soul. With the possible exception of the toes, the surfaces are devoid of personality. The are modeled in such a bland and lifeless manner that they have all of the appeal of a store-window mannequinn. Beauty is not a sterile thing made of "perfect" surfaces. It involves the life-force which this sculpture clearly lacks.
Well... maybe the sculptor captured successfully the lack of life-force that Kate Moss impersonates ;-)

During some time in some environment ( uh ) , we called mannequins "bone stacks" because they were in this environment a/ boring high-nose people b/ so slim-anorexic you worried the broke down c/ really with no inner life or beauty except the plastic appearance

Hopefully... there ARE some exceptions and some of them are amongst the most exquisite persons to know
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Old 05-07-2007, 04:57 PM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Ummm yes, I kind of agree with you Cantab in all your posts on this thread. I was looking at the Alison Laper the other day following a visit to the National Gallery. As a sort of monument thing its impressive as a piece of sculpture it is dead, may as well have been an enlarged life cast by very good craftsmen which is I guess probably is what it is!. Likewise the Kate Moss stuff, I suspect we are missing something...but as yet not sure what.
Is it that the current crop of high profile artists see themselves as pop stars, sort of (excuse my age) beatles of art? Not sure, I am sure they would say no. Perhaps they see themselves on a par as personalities with Kate Moss, ie, Tabloid personalities, is this wrong, don't know. I do know its a lot different from what I want to achieve but maybe thats because I'm an old bastard and have some knowledge of art history, craft, skill and would you believe Advertising. I suspect that most of this work, despite being cast in bronze or carved in stone will within a generation be forgotten. But this is probably wishfull thinking, we live in a superficial world and these works reflect that world. Thank you America for helping weak old Europe to follow your lead in this direction, you took Duchamp into your bossom and gave us Wharhol and Koons we shall return the compliment with Hirst, Emin, Quinn and Co, I suspect as an ex advertising man, and yes just a little bitter, that these artists have more to do with my past life than the one I have now. I also suspect, know, that they are more relevant as artists than I am. They have half my talent, intelligence, ability...but they are of NOW, they reflect an age I cannot. They are shallow, their work is imature, they can probably, possibly spell better than me. They lack a feeling for their mediums. Plastic = stone. They are lazy, They lack passion yet they think they are all about passion. They lack knowledge but they are clever! and most of all they have the support of the art establishment. We have no avant guarde anymore. The art establishment rejects those that do not follow the line, those that believe that we have reached a dead end creatively, that we worship the banal...here I go again rambling, what the hell this is life...just do what you do guys...good or bad...just be honest to yourselves.
Forgot where I started so will stop and post.
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Old 05-07-2007, 05:05 PM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

The artist is selling these contorted statues by auction.

Moss yoga sculptures due for auction

Bronze statues of Kate Moss in yoga poses are due to fetch hundreds of thousand of pounds at auction.

The sculptures, by artist Marc Quinn, show her with her legs stretched behind her head and in other awkward poses, are currently on display at New York's Mary Boone gallery.

The realistic depictions of the supermodel are estimated to fetch around £137,500 each. ....
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Old 05-07-2007, 05:15 PM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Oh and by the way...the National Gallery has (This is a gallery of painters basically) just added to its walls a carving, marble relief, by Agostino Di Duchio, stunning. This is, was sculpture. If you get the chance check it out.
Sorry Mr Quinn but this IS carving, subtle, superb and created just a few years earlier than your efforts...boring old fart that I am.
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Old 05-07-2007, 05:39 PM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Quote:
Originally Posted by jssculptor
Oh and by the way...the National Gallery has (This is a gallery of painters basically) just added to its walls a carving, marble relief, by Agostino Di Duchio, stunning. This is, was sculpture. If you get the chance check it out..
I think you mean the National Gallery, London. Very few here would have the chance. So show us a picture or two.
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Last edited by Merlion : 05-07-2007 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 05-08-2007, 04:27 AM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

“Well... maybe the sculptor captured successfully the lack of life-force that Kate Moss impersonates…” – Philpraxis Post 17.
I have a great respect for much that you say on this site, Phil. But, in fact, Quinn’s views on Moss are worth considering in this respect. He has been quoted in the Guardian article (Post 1) as saying that “Kate’s body is perfect” (A faintly ludicrous statement for an artist, and an odd way to describe the adolescent-like physique of Moss). He goes on to speak of how “she is a mirror of ourselves, a knotted Venus of our age” and goes on to blitz us with a range of cultural references from the Sphinx to Asian religion. Well, she is certainly a mirror of the age, in line with the hollowed-out culture we have created, but a ‘knotted Venus’? Venus is part of a complex mythological tradition, and in terms of her place in Western culture is genuinely ‘knotted’ – rich and allusive. This Moss sculpture is only ‘knotted’ in its pose. It’s as if Quinn doesn’t understand the nature of complexity in great art, except as a set of mechanical references added in a mechanical way. Even Quinn’s references to Moss’s life suggest an odd naivety – her brushes with the law, for Quinn, speak of “a collision between real life and the image”. Balls! Drug taking and celebrity lifestyles go hand-in-hand. No collision here. I feel, when reading Quinn’s thoughts, that he is spinning a web of justifications for a personal obsession. Moss’s brushes with the law? According to Quinn: “It’s made her bigger and stronger because it humanises her” No, Mark. It reminds us that indulgence is all that’s left when you are too rich and, well, don’t know what to do with yourself.

The main problem with Quinn’s sculptures is that they are IDEA dominated. For me the relationship between the carver and the stone has to be there. Quinn’s work suggests that he has no interest in carving. Those polished, flat, characterless sculptures speak of someone who has never developed a personal relationship with carving, or developed a style of carving that goes with love of the stone and working the stone. This dependency on Italian workshops is part of the problem. But then, maybe media personalities shy off the sheer commitment involved, or they may argue that a commitment to the medium and to hand crafting is so yesterday.

Jssculptor – I think you are right: Damien Hirst started a trend of artist as pop star/media personality.
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Old 05-08-2007, 12:26 PM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

"for me, the relationship between the carver and the stone has to be there."

Indeed Cantab, and this would apply in metaphor to however you make your art.
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Old 05-08-2007, 05:45 PM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

This is pigfood and the only reason I call it food at all is becase a craftsman or two no doubt spent many hours chewing on it.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:41 PM
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Re: Meet Kate Moss - contorted

Yes Cantab, indeed my remark was highly ironic, but the main trait of this issue seems to be really linked to pop-star media figures. The subject matter is definitely one big starter for such orientation, i.e. Kate Moss.

What's interesting is that what works in media and art dealership circles also works on this forum: sex, personalities, and sensationalism.

Look at the number of replies on this question and the number of views. This is very telling that our human nature (mine included) is perfectly trapped by media when exploiting these traits. And some sculptors must have noticed that and now are trying to get success.

"The more you try with envy, the more you fail", in my opinion . Overblown fake subjects just look fake, whatever you do. Vitality is not something you can fake.
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