From paper pulp to bronze

[rika]

I got an interesting proposal some time ago from Cheese that I took up immediately out of curiousity. He kindly offered that he would try to cast in bronze one of my paper sculptures. There was some concern that it may not turn out well due to wire and aluminum foil used as filler inside the sculpture. I chose this solid, descent looking piece, an early work. So here is my first bronze piece thanks to Cheese! (There was some shrinkage in the arms, but I like the way it turned out.)

I would be interested in hearing what you all think of the transformation. Bronze or paper pulp? See the pulp figure for comparison.

Title: Helpless
approx. 10-11 inches high

[evaldart]

The bronze version looks great...and of course it would...the only difference now is that it is bronze. I dont think that this has any visual impact...it will certainly last longer, and as far as market concerns it will be worth more $. Folks are used to paying a pretty penny for a bronze.
It is great that Cheese was willing to let you see your artifact potentiated in such a manner; though I dont suppose its "bronze-ness" affects its formal significance - nor does the bronzing of it impact your experience of making it. On the other side of things, where other-than-aesthetic things occur, you might well be encouraged to pursue more things like this - as another branch on the ol' money tree.
Nice work in the foundry Cheese. Its dirty work, but someone's got to do it.

[mantrid]

It look great. Is that acetic acid for the green patina?
Why no arms, I think the title no longer fits?
One thing I personally like about bronzes is that they can potentially be around thousands of years after Im dead. A little comfort to an atheist like me.

[raspero]

Yeah, now that they aren't melted down to make cannons every few years bronze sculptures have a much longer life expectancy.

Richard

[Nelson]

I do like it more! Beyond the bronze advantages already stated, brings even more force to the title and to the figure itself. Good job for both of you. The patina also imparts more weight and formality so to speak.

[tonofelephant]

Rika, Thorughly delightful. Like it better than the paper model. Has more gravitas.

Sorry to tell you this. Now have run up your costs to produce sculpture.

Carl

[rika]

Thank you for your comments. I'll share my thoughts later, as I received the piece only yesterday, still thinking about it, and am considering your answers as well.

But I think I can answer your questions, Mantrid:

Originally Posted by mantrid

It look great. Is that acetic acid for the green patina?
Why no arms, I think the title no longer fits?
One thing I personally like about bronzes is that they can potentially be around thousands of years after Im dead. A little comfort to an atheist like me.

The patina is cupric nitrate.
The short arms are a result of shrinkage caused by temperature control, I think. Cheese says that higher temperature would be needed for the wire to burn out, and I think he mentioned some spruing issues as well. He made a few wax copies of the original piece to have at least one successful piece, and cast one of those in aluminum, which did not turn out well, but I'd like to try a black patina on it regardless.
I actually like the piece better with the short arms, they emphasize the figure's vulnerability in my opinion.
I know what you mean about the longevity, I used to think that way, but am no longer concerned as much with the life span of the artifact. I still like to look at them, live amongst them, and also know that with reasonable care they can "live" as long or longer than clay. Once a piece is out of my hands, my responsibility, my role is over anyways...unless I buy them back later, to keep them together as witnesses and milestones of my aesthetic development, like Picasso.

[Robson Valley]

delicately elegant. Both of them.

[mantrid]

For me it was the dangly limp arms and the girly hairstyle that made it look helpless, but everyone sees it differently.

Cheese didnt make a mould of the original then, he used it direct to do the bronze? Im presuming then that if he made wax copies then he has made a mould of the bronze itself?

Originally Posted by rika

Thank you for your comments. I'll share my thoughts later, as I received the piece only yesterday, still thinking about it, and am considering your answers as well.

But I think I can answer your questions, Mantrid:



The patina is cupric nitrate.
The short arms are a result of shrinkage caused by temperature control, I think. Cheese says that higher temperature would be needed for the wire to burn out, and I think he mentioned some spruing issues as well. He made a few wax copies of the original piece to have at least one successful piece, and cast one of those in aluminum, which did not turn out well, but I'd like to try a black patina on it regardless.
I actually like the piece better with the short arms, they emphasize the figure's vulnerability in my opinion.
I know what you mean about the longevity, I used to think that way, but am no longer concerned as much with the life span of the artifact. I still like to look at them, live amongst them, and also know that with reasonable care they can "live" as long or longer than clay. Once a piece is out of my hands, my responsibility, my role is over anyways...unless I buy them back later, to keep them together as witnesses and milestones of my aesthetic development, like Picasso.

[rika]

Mantrid, he said he could either pour bronze around the paper figure directly, or make an alginate mold for wax copies. He must have tried the direct method too, because one of the unsuccessful casts still has the wire in it. I find the partial piece very interesting, there is something very compelling about how chance plays into the outcome of the final piece.

[evaldart]

If you toss your sculpture out the window of your car on the highway, and then go back and retrieve it you have let "chance" play into its outcome. I dont imagine there is anything aesthetically compelling about that. You and the paper pulp were involved in something absolutely unique and unprecedented (and induplicable); there was an artifact left over that evidenced that row specifically. It is not a good thing that it goes off to the casting factory and comes back changed. Perhaps it is changed in a manner that it will be more sellable - but that has nothing to do with aesthetic significance...which is the only thing art is "about".
Control your own accidents, enforce your own "chance" with things and materials under your own hands...it can be done.

Consider the longer slithering arms; the longer soft, slower moving contours indeed "feel" very different than the stubby ones. I see shorter arms as being aggressive...mutated, stunted, severed, amputated, unnerving. Both have their worth; but I know which one you intended. It is the same as if your sculpture came back without hands.

Plenty of artists have uses molten metal for things other than for the mere duplication of already made forms; I see far greater potential there for a foundry. Being at the helm of his/her own creativity is everything - seeing your singular experience through to its "end" is everything.

Selling bronze copies, though, can be lucrative - and might well deserve a chance to help support your art "habit". But one must know just what it is they are making as they are making it; because not all creative efforts are equal (but many different kinds of creative efforts are probably necessary - and necessary things arent as significant as UNnecessary things).

[rika]

Originally Posted by evaldart

Plenty of artists have uses molten metal for things other than for the mere duplication of already made forms; I see far greater potential there for a foundry. Being at the helm of his/her own creativity is everything - seeing your singular experience through to its "end" is everything.

This is what I was thinking of, E. Something like this. Look at the pictures at the bottom of the page. The description of the process is not there anymore, but I saw it once, it was very interesting. It is a bronze pour in which the artist is directly involved, it is a controlled pour and you get a new orriginal piece every time. I imagine it like a three dimensional abstract painting and that's what I find very compelling about it. Of course it has to be done at the foundry, so just a dream for me anyways.

http://www.williamsmill.com/artists....=&C=&P=1&ID=24

[evaldart]

Yes Rika...I do like the way the "pouring" combines with the mold and the mess and the mayhem. The figuration is secondary to the process in this case - the recognizable evidence of a body is now another compositional effect combined with the "frozen"-in-action metal.

Melting metal is far from a dream (walking on the moon, is a dream - or having tea with Chaucer); If it becomes your most urgent urge to do it, it is readily achievable; but I sense that your priorities are elsewhere right now. But you never know where your art-life is going to go.

[mantrid]

Originally Posted by rika

Of course it has to be done at the foundry, so just a dream for me anyways.

Apart from the shape of the piece the patination is the most important thing when it comes to a bronze (The casting in metal simply makes the piece longer lasting). Patination would be easy enough for you to do as it only require some readily available chemicals, brushes and a blow torch. There are plenty of patina recipies and application methods out there on the net

[rika]

Thanks again to all of you. I see almost everyone seems to be preferring the bronze version. Wonder if your opinions are influenced by tradition and marketability though.

My first impression was, "wow, bronze is such a FORGIVING material!" compared to my pulp. The piece looked so professional and confident like any sculpture displayed in a decent commercial gallery. Secondly, I loved the patina, Cheese did an awesome job. I think this forever changed my way of looking at bronze sculptures.

The truth is sometimes I need to take a break from what I consider my "serious", maximally involving work. And that work seems to be a hard sell. So I could easily make figures like this one as a temporary relief when in recovery mode. I understand the concept of "in order to make money you need to spend money", and I would, however I've no idea if the marketability of this type of sculpture is only in my head or if it's real. So I am hesitant to spend hundreds if not a thousand $ on bronzes without any solid prospects. I guess it would be a great project for Kickstarter but I don't think that's available to Canadians.

Here's what I am torn about though: I cannot imagine my BEST works turned into bronze. Each material has its own unduplicable, capricious qualities that need to be respected and cherished for their own uniqueness. Transplant the essence of a material into something else and it's losing something important. Another, although secondary, reason is that I am striving to change people's perception about paper pulp/ paper mache, because it needs to be changed. It is as good and noble material as any.

Lastly, my first bronze sculpture's got the best placement in my house, and I am very proud of it, and Cheese, it was an awesome idea!

[obseq]

I love working with bronze for reasons aside from the marketability refrain, but you do something really special with paper pulp...

(And nice casting/patina, cheese! )

Originally Posted by rika

Another, although secondary, reason is that I am striving to change people's perception about paper pulp/ paper mache, because it needs to be changed. It is as good and noble material as any.

Done and done for me.

[evaldart]

You neednt waste intensity defending your medium. And you neednt make it bronze so that other folk will like it (and buy it). You are thinking FAR too much about the artifact. Your paper work is transcendent.

Of course, there might be another you that tends to a "career" that would wish for the art things to contibute to the general mish mosh of survival...in that case, turn the paper into bronze and the suckers who'd rather not invest in paper will pay a pretty penny (to you, the dealer, the bronze tradesmen, et al) for the art; which is already priceless, if you ask me.

I have a few me's... and those other ones are always up to some damned nonsense...but I guess they help in the end.

[tobias]

Rika what a great step for you!! The bronze totally affects the the sculpture. Not better not worse but very different. The paper lends a degree of fragility where the bronze is stronger looking. I don't really have preference. I do say good for you for experimenting.
Some plusses about the bronze now that you have a hold you can cast that same piece over and over. Then cut the arms, legs, body apart twist them reposition them and you have new sculpture. You would have to start TIG welding but thats not tough for sculpture. The prospects are endless!!!!!!!
There is something very liberating about being able to cut bend twist recut weld melt
Good luck with this new movement.