Bronze Casting in Thailand

[Merlion]

I am following a well known local sculptor to visit a bronze foundry in Bangkok, Thailand. She has a big 2.2 m tall casting job being done there. As this is the first time for me, to gain experience, I am taking along a small carved plaster figure model to ask them to mold and cast, with no enlargement. If the price is not too high, I may cast more than one.

Around this S E Asia region, Thailand is a cheap popular place among sculptors to cast bronze sculptors. Some sculptors go further afield to do their bronze casting in China.

If there are interest in this Forum, on coming back I may report on my experience and how much they charge.

[fusionforce]

I'm in Chiangmai and I would be kind of interested in how much the Bangkok foundry charges. I've been doing some bronze casting around Chiangmai and would be interested in comparisons. By the way, I used to live in Singapore, have many friends there. I would also be interested in doing metal casting contract work for sculptors in Singapore, maybe we could work together? My background is more in photography, but i'm now doing sculpture as well.

[Merlion]

Originally Posted by fusionforce

I'm in Chiangmai and I would be kind of interested in how much the Bangkok foundry charges. I've been doing some bronze casting around Chiangmai and would be interested in comparisons. By the way, I used to live in Singapore, have many friends there. I would also be interested in doing metal casting contract work for sculptors in Singapore, maybe we could work together?

I asked this bronze founry in Bangkok to cast and platina five pieces of my figure sculpture, same size as the original which is a plaster carving, see below, W 22 cm. (8.5 in.). They charge me US$850 for the five pieces and the mould.

For me this is a further learning process after previously attending a bronze casting short course myself. It is the first casting job I've asked a bronze art foundry to do.

About Singapore sculptors, the established ones are familiar with sending sculptures to do bronze casting, either in Thailand or China. But many new sculptors are not, and would like to know more if there is a chance.

Previously one of the two arts colleges here teach bronze casting, which is where I took my lessons. But now both do not offer it which is a set back for the sculptors community here.

[Merlion]

While my reputed sculptor friend and I were in Bangkok, we dropped in unannounced to visit the Silpakorn University, rated as Bangkok's premier fine-arts university.

I did tried beforehand to contact member 'noppadonsculp' who I understand is from this university. I sent a 'message' through this Forum, but couldn't get any reply. I can't send him an email which would be much more effective.

It is true this is a university with a number of departments related to fine arts. It would be nice to meet 'noppadonsculp', to see his interesting sculptures, and to have him shown us around. Well, too bad. Perhaps next time.

[Merlion]

In case some of you are still interested in the price of bronze casting in Thailand, I am now ordering another one there. It is a smaller one, size about 6 x 4 x 3 in., and more complex, see below. I ordered 12 pieces, same size (i.e. no enlargement). Including the mold, the total cost is also about US $850.

[Merlion]

While waiting for my resin cast to set, I sat down and did a Google search for bronze sculpture foundries in Thailand, mainly to satisfy my curiosity.

I am surprised by finding in Bangkok alone five foundries. (Bangkok is the capital city of Thailand). I found one more at a historic town Ayuthaya one hour from Bangkok. They all have well written and well illustrated English websites.

This probably mean business is good and very competitive, not only for local casting jobs, but also for export jobs.

For those interested, here are the link to the foundries: AAArt, AsiaFineArt, DeeDeeArt, PatimaBronze, ThaiBronzeGarden, Watanapanich. I have experience with only one of these.

[Merlion]

Continuing my Google search in between sessions at my sculpture studio/workshop, I found an interesting well illustrated write-up about the consultation visit of an American academic Dennis French 12 years ago to one of the bronze foundries in Thailand.

The Amazing Thailand Foundry Adventure

In the summer of 1993 I was asked to consult to the foundry in Ayutthaya, Thailand. This was a French owned and operated business with little professional expertise on staff. A former graduate student of mine, Steve Hirt, had traveled throughout Asia and eventually found himself wanting to stay in Thailand for a while. He had heard about a foundry in Ayutthaya and with his infinite charm and powers of persuasion convinced the owner that the foundry was in dire need of some professional help. Steve proceeded to set up a really nice ceramic shell operation and also schooled them in some of the finer points of rubber mold making. [snip]

Steve contacted me early in the spring of 1993 to find out if I would be interested in coming over to the foundry for a couple of months as a paid consultant to see if we could come up with methods of improving quality control. I had to think about that one for about a nano second before I answered "when's our first meal?"

The foundry was used primarily by French sculptors who were trying to keep down their costs. While I was there, however, the American painter and sculptor, Ed MacGowan had entered into a contract with the foundry to reproduce in bronze a series of wooden carvings which were to become part of a large fence at a vocational school in Brooklyn, New York. These panels measured 2'x7'x6"thick and they were proving to be a nightmare for the foundry. [snip]

Taken from: http://www.cfa.ilstu.edu/dfrench/tha...wthaipage1.htm

I have no experience with this foundry, but an experienced sculptor friend of mine uses it for his life-size bronze sculptures and once recommended it to me.

[ottojo]

Hello Merlion,

I would love to know how things did go in Bangkok, I am planning to go there at some point in the near future.
Thank you for your news,
ottojo

Originally Posted by Merlion

I am following a well known local sculptor to visit a bronze foundry in Bangkok, Thailand. She has a big 2.2 m tall casting job being done there. As this is the first time for me, to gain experience, I am taking along a small carved plaster figure model to ask them to mold and cast, with no enlargement. If the price is not too high, I may cast more than one.

Around this S E Asia region, Thailand is a cheap popular place among sculptors to cast bronze sculptors. Some sculptors go further afield to do their bronze casting in China.

If there are interest in this Forum, on coming back I may report on my experience and how much they charge.

[JAZ]

Merlion,
Thank you for posting all of this information. It is useful.
JAZ

[bluedogshuz]

Merlion,
You mentioned several foundries. Which one did you use and are you satisfied with the quality? The prices are certainly reasonable. Shipping is a different issue.

[Merlion]

Originally Posted by bluedogshuz

Merlion,
You mentioned several foundries. Which one did you use and are you satisfied with the quality? The prices are certainly reasonable. Shipping is a different issue.

Hi Bluedoshuz, I have already mentioned it in the other Thread on 'Foundries -- China, India or ..' under the 'Community Help Center' Forum, and you have posted into it yesterday. (Don't want to create an impression that I am plugging it, although it has been satisfactory, and my sculptor friend was happy about going back to it to do her many exhibition pieces.)

[Merlion]

Originally Posted by ottojo

Hello Merlion, I would love to know how things did go in Bangkok, I am planning to go there at some point in the near future.

Good. My bronze castings from Bangkok have just arrived, consisting of three items - Agony, Ladies (small) and Ladies (large). I am quite happy with them, see below, although they have forgotten to ship the molds which I've also paid for.

(Further editing correction on the last point. I did ask them to keep the mold for the Ladies (large) in case I make subsequent order. But I didn't leave any instructions on the molds of the other two items, and before shipping the castings, the foundry didn't asked me to clarify further.)

We have been discussing here about shipping cost. I've just dug out an old email. It says it'll cost me US$100 to separately ship to Singapore port five pieces of Agony, which together with the mold cost me US$850. (Further editing. Actually this cost is not for sea shipping, but for delivery by air courier.)

This is why I had the impression that, to me (not necessarily to other countries), shipping relative to manufacturing cost is not much. You can have a rough idea of the size of Agony from the 1-ft ruler I put in front of the picture below.

Also shown below is a photo showing the different patina colors. As the five Agony pieces are my first order, I decided to request five colors to compare. When it comes to Ladies (small), I selected by remote email viewing two of these five. I'm still not sure which ones are better.

[ottojo]

Hello Merlion,

thank you for your fast respons, the pieces do look nice with the different patinas, the images are very helpfull.
I am wondering how long it took them to finisch your project?

best regards,
ottojo

[Merlion]

Originally Posted by ottojo

... the pieces do look nice with the different patinas, the images are very helpfull. I am wondering how long it took them to finisch your project?

About the choice of patina colors, as I have been so used to sculptures with one single color, it did not cross my mind that they can apply mixed colors. So for the large ladies which were done last, the foundry suggested two tones, a darker color for the large dog which I agreed. Now I notice they had applied three tones, the lightest color for the skin, see below.

When I was at the foundry, the workmen were applying patinas on a large eagle on a tree. Now I remember the finished pieces of this eagle was nicely multi colored. You can see this large eagle at their webpage although unfortunately this photo is nearly black and white, and cannot show the colors well.

About how long they took on the jobs, they were quite fast, minimal delay. They emailed me photos at specific stages of the works at my request. Sometimes the delays are from waiting for the photo, for my questions and answers, and my decision.

I wasn't in a hurry, and I decided to wait for a shipment together of mine and all my friend's large sculptures. She had four pieces each 8 ft tall. The final wooden crate comes to a size 8'x8'x12', which means it takes up more than half the space of a 20' long shipping container.

[Landseer]

Originally Posted by Merlion

We have been discussing here about shipping cost. I've just dug out an old email. It says it'll cost me US$100 to separately ship to Singapore port five pieces of Agony, which together with the mold cost me US$850.

Very nice!
So if I read this right, the five "agony" casts shown plus making the mold and shipping came to $850? That would be around $170 each for everything.
I think your shipping to Singapore was a lot less than it would have been to the USA, and that it just happened that your friend also had a sculpture going in a crate/container so that your sculptures could piggy-back along in the same shipment.
I know I shipped 2 sculptures to Japan 12# each parcel post and they were about $30 each for the postage and 6-8 weeks estimated delivery time.

I shipped another sculpture about 16# to France the same way and it was $45.

Now I have a client who is asking about casting my Art Deco panel in bronze, no idea how many they want, but the one they asked about is 5" wide and 9-1/2" high and could be cast about 3/8" thick with a flat back.
If they want more than one or two I'll look into it, but I think the cost either way would be a lot more than they think, and I believe they might only want one so that wouldn't be worth my time. I normally cast these in hydrocal for $22 with a bronze finish, and I can't visualize them paying what I'd bet would run $150 for one in bronze when I add in my costs and time if I had one cast here.

I would have to make and ship a wax or else make a new mold and ship that since my mold is for casting hydrocal and the mother mold is heavy plaster, or I would have to pay for a mold to be made. But I was thinking about this the other day and think these panels would be awesome in bronze and that if I had casts made exactly like the originals then they could be assembled in any length.
The originals were about 4" wide with a separate strip between each section, my cast stone versions have the strips incorporated as part of the whole cast and I would want to separate that back out again if done in metal.
With that in mind I could maybe have a couple dozen made.

Attached is a photo of the original single section and one separate border strip that was installed between each section across the doorway maybe running 8 feet across. The rectangular with the round top center of the main piece is cut out completely through, I sure can't remember how these were installed exactly but I'm thinking there may have been a light behind them which came thru those little openings, but it's been 33 years so I can't remember- I was only 13 when I salvaged them and didn't pay much attention to how they were installed.

[bluedogshuz]

Very good merlion. They have not got back with me re. my questions via email. I really like agony and did a stone version very similar bout 20 years ago. You really captured it man. Wonderful!

[manic]

did you do the enlargement of "ladies" yourself or did the foundry?

[Merlion]

Originally Posted by manic

did you do the enlargement of "ladies" yourself or did the foundry?

The foundry did the enlargement to double the size. They have artist employees who sculpt large and small foundry artworks to sell. (Somewhere else I mentioned I like their life-size eagle, and Lanseer love one of their horses.)

It is interesting that I didn't fly there again to touch up on the details. I just rely on the photos they emailed me. I emailed my feedback comments a few times until I felt sufficiently satisfied.

This would not be possible years ago before we had emails and broadband. And it saves me the cost of the flight and hotel. Of course if it is important work I would fly there again.

[Merlion]

There is some further development to my bronze castings in Thailand. I've got more information on the delivery costs by air courier.

What's happened is that I decided to order some more of the larger version of the lady with dogs. Size does matter. This really looks much more impressive than the half size version. I plan to give them away to my good friends and relatives for them to remember me and my late wife (The sculpture it is based on a good photo of my late wife and her dogs.)

As my siblings are all over the world, one in Hong Kong, one in Australia, and one in California, I need the delivery costs to them.

Some of you in this Forum may be interested in the delivery cost to California from Thailand. It is by air courier, and it costs about USD120. The piece weighs about 7 lbs.

[Landseer]

Thailand to California 7# $120 via air

Parcel Post thru the postal system on overseas surface shipping would be lots cheaper, that bronze horse I just bought is over 12 kg- about 28# plus the box and packing, and the seller in the UK is charging £50
which is around $85 for shipping.
The only drawback is surface shipping can take 4-6 weeks

[Landseer]

The older Patima bronze horse arrived today from the UK Merlin, here are a few pictures of it and it weighs 30 pounds!

Overall I'd say the cast is flawless and well done, one of the attached reins from the horse's bit to the base appears had been broken off at some point- it's attachements can be seen and shows on the new ones.
I was aware of this before purchasing however.

What I like very much is the deep reddish brown patina, it shows fairly well in the images but I used flash so th ecolor may not be totally accurate displayed here.

[Landseer]

I spent a little time working on this bronze, basically I used a torch on a low flame and a brass brush, just heating up the gold paint enough to remove it with a few light movements with the brass brush.
I don't particularly care for this type of decoration on a bronze though some probably do like the highlighting.
With the gold paint removed I think it's just stunning, I warmed the bronze up a little and applied paste wax to it and I'm waiting on that to dry before polishing with a clean rag.

I'll see how a photo turns out and post it for comparison.

[Paul King]

Anyone interested in casting in Thailand should really check out Asia Fine Art in Ayutthaya. Many think it is the best foundry in Thailand (quality) and others think it is the best foundry in Asia. American standards and imported silicon bronze.

[Merlion]

I'll keep you in mind Paul when I get a bronze commission. Earlier on I followed an experienced sculptor friend to Bangkok to try out ordering bronze castings, and to gain experience. That suits me fine.

Actually before that, I was recommended your foundry by another experienced sculptor friend, and I sent out an email even mentioning his name after fishing out your website. Somehow I failed to get a reply.

At Bangkok airport, I suppose I can take a taxi to Ayutthaya. How long does it take ?

[Landseer]

Originally Posted by Paul King

. American standards and imported silicon bronze.

I'm not sure "American" standards are all what some want to build them up to be, corporate America (not just foundries mind you) exists for one reason only- to make a profit any way they can no matter what, by cutting corners, using lesser quality materials, outsourcing to China, Mexico etc.

Screwing employees and customers- Enron, Worldcomm, the airlines who ditched employee pensions etc, the companies that don't follow OSHA rules or the laws for employee safety in order to save money, the companies that knowingly put out defective products that kill people- ala; the drug company who knowingly marketed a drug they knew damaged people's hearts and can cause a heart attack, ala; Owens-Corning fiberglass which has been subject of many lawsuits their lawyers kill off, but the profits were huge and their insurance covers lawsuits and their directors are immune from lawsuits.

I think I would trust a foundry like Patima for quality AND price faster than an American foundry, and I do have one of their bronze casts.

America used to have a great steel industry and foundry industry, back in the 19th century they created and crafted the most extraordinary metal work as well as hand hammered copper architectural art. The old world skills we had here have long been out of use and employee turnover in all industries is considerable, that means as older experienced workers retired or died they are replaced with young workers who more often than not float from job to job rarely staying more than a couple or three years either for their own reasons or the employer.
It seems our number 1 industry in America now involves computers, kids are graduating High School and College going into computer programming, software engineering, CAD, and networking, they aren't going into machine shop technical schools, bronze casting, metal shop, and art classes in schools is basically dead these days- the victim of budget cuts.

Why would they when they can take courses given by Microsoft, or Sysco and eventually become highly paid computer engineers or systems engineers where the salaries begin at well over $75,000 or $100,000?

I have a friend who is enrolled in Sysco's program, I think he said it's 3 years, when he graduates he will be certified and make a good income-if he gets a job in this computer "network engineer/software engineer" glut, for everyone and their brother does "computer networking" or web site design these days.

Foundry work is hard, heavy, hot and dirty, it's exposing workers to fumes, toxic materials and dust, it's not the line of work teens today are thinking to themselves; "Hey dad, I know what I want to do the rest of my life!! I want to cast BRONZE at a foundry!!"

More likely the teen will need a job and their happens to be a local foundry hiring, so the teen goes for a summer job and that's about it, they mostly move on in a year or two. Gone are the days when you took a job at a company, stayed there for 50 years and retired with a company pension.

As an aside, a few years ago I met an elderly man who DID work for 50 years at an organ company in Kansas, all he did for the 50 years was hand make the keyboards out of wood, bone, ebony and ivory and he was the only employee who made the keyboards, so all of the keyboards the company installed in their pipe organ consoles over those 50 years were made by this one fellow. You don't find that any more.

If this foundry is using imported American? Silicon bronze, the costs will be much more for materials. Foundries here pay about $4 a pound for the metal and I think it's all pretty much imported to HERE since I don't believe the USA has any copper or tin mines these days.