Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net  

Go Back  Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net > Sculpture Roundtable Discussions > Community Help Center
User Name
Password
Home Sculpture Community Photo Gallery ISC Sculpture.org Register FAQ Members List Search New posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-12-2006, 04:48 PM
iowasculptor's Avatar
iowasculptor iowasculptor is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: midwest
Posts: 357
Question fireproof floor?

OK, here I go, I need to know what can be done to a plywood floor to make it fireproof. Our studio is a converted swimming pool. The conversion was a wooden floor supports and plywood on top, pretty standard residential type of floor. It has linoleum tile on top of the plywood. The problem as you might imagine is that when a student (or me) drops a hot piece of metal after cutting or welding it melts the tile and burns the floor. It gets better, in one area of the shop we have a tiled section with ceramic tile, this is the foundry area, with the sand pit for our pours. What do you suppose the fire pit is constructed out of, you guessed it, wood. This a problem when metal spills and runs and hits the wood we get a fire, Besides the ventalation which isn't good and the sound that is almost unbareable when grinding. Does anyone know of a product that can be placed over an existing floor to fireproof it? I need to do something about this but I want to have a solution when I approach the administration so they don't just tell me that I can't do anything more than paper mache (not that there is anything wrong with paper mache). Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Matt
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-12-2006, 04:59 PM
anatomist1 anatomist1 is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pacific NW, USA
Posts: 604
Re: fireproof floor?

I would just use fire-grade ceramic tiles everywhere - on the whole floor, the pit, and a couple feet up the walls.

I say 'I would' in the sense that I would get someone else to do it. I'd rather cut my own head off with a penknife than lay hundreds of square feet of tile again. Ever. Unfortunately, the labor is expensive, whereas the tile and materials themselves are cheap.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-12-2006, 10:12 PM
ahirschman's Avatar
ahirschman ahirschman is offline
ISC Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 469
Re: fireproof floor?

How about pouring one or two inches of cement on top of your plywood? Maybe add wire mesh to keep the cement from cracking as easily. Or maybe cement board? Cement would be quite cheap. Not sure what the price is now, but I was buying it at around 80 to 100$ per cubic yard with a minimum of a few yards.

Ari.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-13-2006, 07:54 AM
EJB EJB is offline
ISC Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: LA/NY
Posts: 358
Re: fireproof floor?

Sheet metal?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-13-2006, 09:31 AM
Merlion's Avatar
Merlion Merlion is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3,716
Re: fireproof floor?

I would suggest steel plates. This has the advantage that they can be easily lifted and used/placed elsewhere when in future you have to change the usage of the floor space.

Last edited by Merlion : 05-13-2006 at 06:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-13-2006, 12:16 PM
iowasculptor's Avatar
iowasculptor iowasculptor is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: midwest
Posts: 357
Re: fireproof floor?

Would there be a danger with steel plates from electrical conductivity? From Welding etc.
Matt
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-13-2006, 04:20 PM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,272
Re: fireproof floor?

Plywood needs the cement board or "hardy backer board" before doing a cement coating or it will crack. Screw it to the plywood, mesh tape & thinset mortar the seams & coat with the product. Here's a link to a trowel on cement product that has the "fireproof" word on the site http://www.permacrete.com/ . The fireproof tile sounds good too.
I think that ventilation system is also critical.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-13-2006, 08:48 PM
Merlion's Avatar
Merlion Merlion is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 3,716
Re: fireproof floor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iowasculptor
Would there be a danger with steel plates from electrical conductivity? From Welding etc.
Matt
You may be right. (I don't do arc welding).

In that case, perhaps ready-made cement boards may be better.
__________________
Merlion
www.onesunartist.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-13-2006, 09:54 PM
ahirschman's Avatar
ahirschman ahirschman is offline
ISC Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 469
Re: fireproof floor?

I would worry with steel and electrical conductivity, and also heat conductivity to the wood beneath - unless you use thick plates, but that is a nice luxury. Cement boards are good, but probably not needed if you use a couple of inches of cement with some type of wire mesh reinforcement. There are many garages that have only 2.5 to 3" of cement and support the weight of a car. Any way, you just need to do the math and see which way is cheaper. My guess is that making thicker cement is cheaper than adding the boards.

Good luck.

Ari.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:28 AM
Jay Long's Avatar
Jay Long Jay Long is offline
Level 5 user
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Maupin Oregon
Posts: 88
Re: fireproof floor?

Once upon a time I needed a welding shop, and I used a upstairs bedroom in a house with wooden floors, My worry was that some of the sparks or hot metal would get inside of the walls, by way of under the baseboards, I used to hang around and wait to see if there was a fire after I used this place, after a while I started to relax a bit, because I realized that a hot piece of metal would not catch the floor on fire, Oh I burned it up real nice like, there was burn marks all over that floor, but it never started a fire, I used this room for a couple of years, and like I said, my worry was getting hot metal into the walls, It would take a lot larger fire source than a piece of hot slag, to catch a piece of plywood on fire, try this: take a piece of plywood and lay it down, heat a 3/4 inch nut cherry red, put it on the ply wood and let it sit untill cool, you will burn the wood but it will not be consumed by fire. with this in mind, what if you bought yourself some 18 ga sheetmetal (mild steel) 4foot by 8foot sheets (pretty cheap stuff) and overlayed your floor space, you could tack it all together and just let it float like a laminated floor, thats what I would do. by the way I would remove all the tile from this floor....Jay
__________________
Jaysmetalart.com

Last edited by Jay Long : 05-14-2006 at 02:34 AM. Reason: add a note
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-14-2006, 02:54 PM
ahirschman's Avatar
ahirschman ahirschman is offline
ISC Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 469
Re: fireproof floor?

I have to partially disagree with Jay. He is correct in what he is saying, and sheet metal would probably do the job. But I would not be so relaxed about fire hazard, and small sparks starting a fire. That is why the electrical code tends to be so strict with junction boxes. Yes, a few artists are not enough to conduct a broad experiment, but fires get started every single day of they year by small sparks and a few tiny globs of molten copper in faulty wiring. A small plastic or metal enclosure is enough to stop those from occurring. In this case I prefer to err on the side of caution. I worked in a rescue squad and had to remove many bodies from the aftermath of house fires and it is not a nice thing to see. So, lots of caution, and please use many smoke detectors in your homes.

Ari.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-14-2006, 10:29 PM
jim jim is offline
Level 7 user
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: minnesota
Posts: 142
Re: fireproof floor?

Iowa, check out this product called Inspecta-Shield (fire retardant coating )
I just built a 21 x 14 foot single car garage out back for my work shop..
I will be coating all the wood on the inside before i sheet rock...
I used this product in business doing stage draperies in schools
it works on all types of product from wood to synthetic fiber..
I have about 10 gallons left. If you would like i can send you some free you pay shipping....let me know

Jim..Minnesota
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-07-2006, 10:16 PM
Daniel Daniel is offline
Level 8 user
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 206
Re: fireproof floor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim
Iowa, check out this product called Inspecta-Shield (fire retardant coating )
I just built a 21 x 14 foot single car garage out back for my work shop..
I will be coating all the wood on the inside before i sheet rock...
I used this product in business doing stage draperies in schools
it works on all types of product from wood to synthetic fiber..
I have about 10 gallons left. If you would like i can send you some free you pay shipping....let me know

Jim..Minnesota
Is this like an intumescent paint? I had to use it to coat some wood on a project once to comply with fire codes. Apparently it foams up to form an insulating layer upon contact with flames. I'm not sure I would trust it to completely guard against fire in a studio setting, but I'm sure it would help.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-08-2006, 02:37 AM
Landseer's Avatar
Landseer Landseer is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,250
Re: fireproof floor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahirschman
That is why the electrical code tends to be so strict with junction boxes. Yes, a few artists are not enough to conduct a broad experiment, but fires get started every single day of they year by small sparks and a few tiny globs of molten copper in faulty wiring. A small plastic or metal enclosure is enough to stop those from occurring
I know what you mean, I worked in building maintenance capacities in the past and some of the jury rigged wiring I've seen... but not only that- defective appliances, I woke up one morning with dogs jumping on me and the room full of smoke- the electric space heater in the room was on FIRE, I grabbed the cord and yanked it out of the socket and heaved the unit out the front door.
Only thing left was the fan motor, coil and screws, the case was all PLASTIC and the thing had failed internally and set the plastic case on fire.
I've also seen many a cord powering those 1500 watt heaters being far too inadequate- 16 ga wire carrying 1500 watts and the cord getting VERY hot.
It amazes me how they can make those things out of PLASTIC, or use so minimal wiring.

As a result, since then I guess I don't trust electrical wiring in the walls or appliances left on/plugged in and when I moved into my house the first thing that went away was the vintage 1930 cloth covered wires in the attic on porcellain insulators buried in the cellulose insulation, so too went the later little "add-ons" extended with pieces of romex used like extension cords.
I prefer commercial grade 1/2" metal conduit with the water resistant type connectors, deep junction boxes with plenty of room, at least 12 ga wire, commercial grade outlets and an extra ground wire to every box, plug, and switch. Where I needed to go in the wall with more bends than conduit was handy to do I used the metal flex conduit- no romex, no bare plastic wires etc.
I've long suspected a certain percentage of fires in the walls come from rodents gnawing on the cables as well as urinating on connectors which causes corrosion/increased resistance and all houses have or have had mice or other rodents in the walls.
I have one wall switch that I shut off when I leave that controls the outlet box for the computer monitor, amplifier and pluged in A/C USB type devices, so all of those go OFF power.

While I do have a space heater in the bedroom, it's one of those all metal NO FAN, NO plastic type oil filled radiator styled deals and I replace it with a new one every 3 years and never put it on it's max setting.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-10-2006, 03:47 PM
jim jim is offline
Level 7 user
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: minnesota
Posts: 142
Re: fireproof floor?

it looks like water just soaks into the wood.
one thing you need to watch out for. if the product freezes before you use it
its no good...

jim
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-03-2006, 09:08 PM
LexCoat LexCoat is offline
Level 1 user
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Windsor Ontario Canada
Posts: 1
Re: fireproof floor?

I would like to be able to provide you with a logical and guranteed fire proof floor that not only provide you with a min. of 4 hours of rating but can be placed on the floor in thin 4mm sheets with basic carpenters glue. Our floor system is so revolutionary that it has taken the commercial and residential industry by storm. The cost per sq/ft is as little as $ 6.25 Canadian and can be installed in minutes over a large area. No special skill is required to apply the flooring but the use of a skill saw or a small table saw would be handy.
The floor comes in various sizes and colours, from brushed aluminum, to chineese red. The choice is entirely up to you.
The studio will look like a modern version of an exterior architectural building.

Call us at 1-877-LEX-COAT (539-2628)
We are just opening up our second lnocation in Toronto Ontario.

Torsten President/CEO
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-04-2006, 09:10 AM
ironman ironman is offline
ISC Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Silver City, New Mexico
Posts: 1,603
Re: fireproof floor?

Hi Matt, The warning signs are on the way, "FOR PAPER MACHE USE ONLY" !
Another thought, Burn the place down! Maybe they'll build you a new studio.
Seriously, that "hardy backer board" or concrete were what came into mind first.
I have worked in garages without insulation or sheetrock for years, just the studs and plywood sheathing, nothing has ever caught fire.
Have a great day,
Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-08-2007, 03:16 PM
Steve Bumpus Steve Bumpus is offline
Level 1 user
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Miami Florida
Posts: 1
Re: fireproof floor?

Inspecta-Shield is a spray on fire retardant coating manufactured by NY Fire-Shield, Inc. This product is a class "A" fire retardant for use on any natural and manmade absorbent or adherent materials including fabrics and lumber as well as many others. Certifications include: NFPA 701/253/255, UL Classified 79P1, ASTM 84/143/162/3597 and many others. This product is not an intumescent paint, varnish or coating. Inspecta-Shield is effective by raising the flame ignition point up to 2500 degrees F thereby slowing or eliminating the flame ingition. (ie. paper ignites at approx. 350 degrees F, glass at 1800, etc). This is the ONLY product given an ICC (International building code council) certification as a class "A" fire retardant coating for wood products such as plywood, white pine lumber, etc. Not only is Inspecta-Shield effective, a certified application will pass your local fire marshall inspection.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-09-2007, 05:54 AM
Rick Clise Rick Clise is offline
Level 6 user
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 123
Re: fireproof floor?

For a while I worked in one studio that had a wooden floor and to reduce the damage from welding slag, and grinding sparks, we put clean dry sand on the floor. Wasn't an ideal solution but it helped. Not being familiar with the commercial fire resistant/retardant solutions proposed by others, for your fire pit I'd think of using cement sheet on top of the wood, with metal angles in the floor/wall corners as a possible workaround.
__________________
Rick Clise
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Sculpture Community, Sculpture.net
International Sculpture Center, Sculpture.org
vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Russ RuBert