Sculpture vs. Painting

[eraWriter]

Does anyone know of any arguments (historical or present) between sculpting and painting. Why one may be "better" than the other, or aim at "higher truths" or anything along those lines.

I would like to tie in this sort of debate in a story that I am writing, any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Also if anyone knows of some place where I could research this topic online, that would be helpful also.

[KeithBentley]

The book "The Agony and the Ecstasy" by Irving Stone comes to mind right away.
I'm not sure if it would be a help but it does tell the wonderful story of Michelangelo. Was there ever a better painter / sculptor?

Best of luck!

[sculptor]

Michaelangelo and Leonardo had such an arguement 500 years ago
The focus was as to which was the more noble art

sculptor

[anatomist1]

My understanding is the Michealangelo thought sculpture and architecture was real art and painting was crap, and Leonardo the converse. You can tell from his paintings that he doesn't get too fancy with the lighting and shadows - it's very 'sculptural'. He's mostly interested in depicting structure. I think he considered painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel a waste of his talent and some of the peak years of his career. Unfortunately, it was a deal he couldn't refuse though...

[JasonGillespie]

It is interesting to note that despite their differences, both Michelangelo and Leonardo both were of the Florentine tradition of painting which would eventually be eclipsed by the Venetian way of handling paint. Both were contour oriented in the crafting of their paintings. This "structural" approach to painting has much in common with sculptural ideas. Verrocchio, Leonardo's teacher/mentor, was a better sculptor than he was a painter and Leonardo learned his method of keeping the contours as strong as the interior modeling....an artistic trait that became less important after Titian. Would Leonardo have been chagrined to have this pointed out to him I wonder.

As for the original question...I think I remember that Leonardo was to have said that painting was a higher/nobler form because it was something that one could do and not prespire or become dirty. You could sip wine and listen to music. Sculpture on the other hand was a rough and dirty process that was more craftsman-like than not. If memory serves it was, at least in part, about the gentile nature of the one activity as opposed to the workman-like qualities of the other. I can't recall what points about the intrinsic nature of one medium being better than another...there were most likely some of those too, however. I remember their feud over this point was quite lengthy.

Humorously,...and I don't remember if I have posted this fact before, but Leonardo did a sketch of Michelangelo's David. I read it was the only such sketch he ever did of a contemporary's work. And despite his disparaging remarks about the muscularity of Michelangelo's figures, his sketch books show that his figure studies became more muscular themselves for a time. Michelangelo supposedly never did sketch anything of Leonardo's. It would seem that, perhaps, Leonardo, regardless of his public denials, had a bit of professional envy.

[eraWriter]

All good info, but it seems as if the argument is between the creators of the art as opposed to the viewer. For instance it doesn't seem fair that I myself can say painting is a more gentile art because I can sip wine and listen to fine music, because when I view a sculpture I can do those same things...therefore as a "viewer" I can argue that both are gentile or "nobler."

And the reason I make this arguement is because my main character is essentially a viewer at first (at least when this topic comes up), before becoming the artist.

[HappySculpting]

I'll just throw a few thoughts out there that I've heard concerning the differences with painting and sculpting.

With painting you can use various tricks to show form and the viewer might not pick up that the anatomy isn't accurate. One tool is the use of colors to distract the eye. Whereas with sculpture, the only color is the shadows created by the clay itself. (Of course, patina can be applied later to distract from errors.) It is what it is, and can be viewed from all angles to see if it truly is accurate.

Painting is in 2D and sculpture 3D. Painting is one degree, one angle. Sculpture is 360 different "paintings" all in one piece of art. 360 degrees.

Personally I would never argue that sculpting is "better" than painting. No not I. But for a book, you could use some of the arguements above to argue that it is superior.

-Tamara

[JasonGillespie]

eraWriter,
In my opinion it is only in the mind/ego of an artist that arguments about one medium being intrinsically better or "nobler" than the other take place. (Ego being a large factor in that ) I would think that to a viewer it is more related to why someone likes one type of music but not another type. The complex psychological and emotional motivations, both conscious and subconscious, that make a certain type of music appealing to one person and not to another are.....I think.....the same as those that come into play when a non-artist is viewing art. As for us...we the artists must be more aware of why we are drawn to one particular form/medium over another. Or we should be. Not that it makes us more capable of deciding which is supposedly best...painting or sculpture...but we feel like we are qualified to render a judgement.

To me it is an apples and oranges type of situation. I think that there are too many significant differences to ever say one is better than the other. Certainly somethings are harder about one than the other, but that has more to do with technique and execution.

Is what you are writing generally about art or is it a specific instance?

[HappySculpting]

erawriter,

Is it a fictional story? If so, then that is where you can slant the arguement one way or another using made up assertions on the lines of what I said in my previous post.

[Tandigon]

Which era are we talking about? The Egyptian or Greek eras when it was commonplace to paint the sculpture, or the Renaissance when Michaelangelo carved almost palpable anatomy and a list of talented painters created realism near to holographic. Or the modern era of Henry Moore and Picasso.

In the very present moment, you can find sculpturesque painting and sculptures that seem to be more fitting as a painting. Whats to choose. Its a medium, you prefer or don't, you know or don't, you have or don't, etc as long as you use whatever you are familiar with and have around, and it enables you to express yourself in a unique way.

I know a guy, who studied sculpture at uni, is really good at it, but now he paints and at times makes small terracotta pieces. He says his means are lmited, so is his space. He did not go academic about his choices. He just uses what's on hand.

If you were commissioned to do a monumental sculpture in bronze on a specific subject, then your choice is made and presumably the means provided. Else its up to you.

"Honey, what are doing with all that junk the plumber left behind"
"Well now if I just take this old commode cover and that elbow joint, this tap and the old shower, umm...."

[GWayne]

eraWriter,

Hi. I like your story idea. I came across the link below, and thought you might interested. Just scroll down to where it says "Sculpture: An Appreciation Primer."

GWayne


http://jerryward.com/Wood_Sculpture/wood_sculpture.html

[AKoch]

The whole point is that sculpture and painting are two differant media, and cannot be compared, any more than you could say that a piano is a "better" instrument tnan a violin- each is unique. Each expresses in a unique way. The same goes for arguments that architecture is the most "important" art form- it's no go, if an artist wants to feel that his or her art form is the most important, OK, put don't tout it as the Truth, any more than someone saying that their religione is The Only True One.

[David Aponte]

I love all the Responces, to the question, Sculptor vs. Painter. as a sculptor. Painting for me is a 2D ilusion, as Noble as can be in its owe way. But still an ilusion. If I were a religious man. I would say, That our paertain saint as sculptors, must and would be St Thomas. As Jason in the mind/ego. or AKoch of two differant midia. Piano vs.Violin. or eraWriter Creator vs.Viewer. Great question, kind of like, which came frist the egg or the chicken? We must start a new topic on Shamanism and the arts.
David Aponte Resto from Puerto Rico.

[PAULHT]

Duchamp said "sculptors aren't stupid like Painters"!

[sdel02]

You could take a look at the essays in the Metopolitan Museum _ Robert Rauschenberg "Combines" book. His Combines are a combination of painting and sculpture so there is a lot of discussion about the differences between the two.

[cmustard]

Here are a few observations I've heard from viewers in the past.

1. Sculpture is what you bump into while backing up to see a painting

2. Relief....sculptors way to achieve wall space over painters

3. Are you an artist or a sculptor?

And then there are painters who dabble in sculpture after they've made thier name as a painter.

[dwright]

I just posted this in Sculptor's Drawings, then noticed this thread, where the comment is equally apt.
Not intimating that sculpture is better than painting, but simply that it is a more difficult medium to successfully pursue. The comment from the other thread...

"Sculpture has had a sort of bad rap in the last century I think, summed up by Mr.Barnett Newman's statement “Sculpture is something you bump in to when backing up to look at a painting.”
The Public Art Commissioners I have met refer to figurative bronze sculptures as ODWGHs, or 'Old Dead White Guys on Horseback'.
I recognize painting as an extraordinary skill, but when comparing the difficulty of the learning curve in three-dimensions, and the expense involved in creating three-dimensional objects in any medium, the dedication and investment required, painters have a cake walk in my opinion.

All the same 'starving artist' cliches apply, but painters don't have to take out a loan on their house to produce a new painting.

Of course sculptors use all the same methods available to 'other' artists, drawing, photography, etc. They are just driven to take it to a further level."

[ironman]

Hi, Both painting and sculpture are difficult. You try becoming a good colorist, and you'll soon find out that painters have as difficult a time as sculptors, just in a different way.
My girlfriend's a painter, and sometimes she'll spend days trying to get the color and the tonal values right on 8 sq. inches of 24x36 canvas. I could see the painting every day, and most of the time, it would look good to me, and I used to be a painter. In fact, I still do it occasionally.
Have a great day,
Jeff

[Thatch]

This is kind of funny. Today I watched an old film and one of the lines really struck me.
"Most people go through life doing things badly. For some _____ is life and everything else is waiting."

Since you don't know what _____ is you can apply it to anything where there is a passion. It could be painting and/or sculpture, but the thing is that for those who decide one way or another it is because it is life, and everything else is waiting to ______.

If you haven't sat around obscessing about what you are working on you are not fit to write about artists.

Thatch

[Scout]

Right on Thatch! Scout

[dondougan]

I don't see the question as being about Sculpture vs. Painting so much as what it is that you (as artist) want to do or what it is that motivates you.
I tell my 3D-Design students that I like being able to stub my toe on what I make -- and to caress it or walk around it to see the 'back' side. I also tell them it is the material that comes first and foremost in sculpture (for myself), and everything else follows.

I remember the first time I saw the Elgin marbles in the British Museum. I had my camera with me and shot an entire roll of 36 exposures of the large works which are displayed on pedestals. Later, when I got the film processed I was surprised to realize I had photographed only two of the exposures of the front views of the pieces, all the 34 others were of the back or side views.

Doesn't mean I don't like frontal works (like painting or drawing), just that fulfillment arrives differently with every type of work (making and/or viewing).

And no matter how many times I get ribbed about being a (stone) sculptor versus a painter every time I install or take-down an exhibit because of the obvious effort required to lug the heavy stuff around, I will continue to grudgingly make that effort — as long as my back holds out ;-)

[GlennT]

I both sculpt and paint because each medium allows one to communicate an idea that the other one may not. To me, the question is not the value of the medium, but the value of the idea of the artist, and whether or not it was effectively communicated.

I also create music, which transcends either medium. ( just kidding!)

[cmustard]

GlennT,

I know you were kidding but, music certainly does have a broader audience. Wonder why more people can respond to sound on an emotional level?
I don't think that the general population has much respect for visual artists.

[tobias]

I dont think I could say which is better but I used to paint all the time and could not express what I wanted because I was limited by 2 dimensions now that I carve I find that I get what I want. As far as drinking wine and carving it is quite possible you just have to be creative which maby sculptors are better at. haha. As far as getting away with less stuf when you sculpt( happy sculpting) I often hear what a beautiful piece of stone befor anyone coments on the work so I think one can get away with alot of crap if you want to . What about direct vs. Indirect you know stone vs bronze isnt this the same argument ?not to exclude wood and steel sorry guys and gals. Imean mike the angel only carved stone and painted right. Maby this is why he liked it better cause you only get one kick at that cat you mess up that piece of stone and thats all you got a messedup piece of stone. Now thats purity haha
tobias

[terracotta]

What is better, sculpture or writing???

Painting in watercolour or ink can be like carving inasmuch as you can't undo what you've done.

Sculpture can touch the blind and partially sighted.

Raymond Mason cast reliefs of landscapes and then went out to paint them en plein air.