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  #1  
Old 07-25-2006, 01:46 PM
Multi_Pass Multi_Pass is offline
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Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

I need help getting the right kind of respirator for when I carve in stone. All my school has to offer are those flimsy paper masks.

I did some work on a stone yesturday using a grinder to cut off some chunks and the mask blocked almost nothing. I was coughing all night and a lot today (I work with white marble and another softer darker stone but I forget it's name).

Could someone show me what kind of mask I should be wearing for this kind of work and also how much it's going to cost me? Any scultrure supply sites that you know of would be good to (one that you know has good quality stuff).
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2006, 02:07 PM
anatomist1 anatomist1 is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

No need to go to a sculpting supply place. The best prices and most knowledgeable vendors are going to be industrial safety supply places. There should be at least one in one of the warehouse districts on the outskirts of your city, and it should be listed in the yellow pages under safety supplies, or the like. This will also be a good place to get good eye and ear protection. I think all students should buy their own safety gear, so that they know what it is and why they are using it, and have an incentive to keep it in good condition.

For stone, you'll probably want a half-face respirator with particulate filters. Those paper masks are worthless. If you look, it probably says "this mask does not protect your lungs" right on the mask. This is an example of what you'll probably want, but don't take my word for it, grill the salespeople at your supply place about what is needed. :

http://www.discountsafetygear.com/re...spirators.html

Definitely don't take professors or other art student's word on anything related to safety. I remember arguing with a prof once about those face masks. He insisted they were adequate protection for sanding plaster despite my having made him read the above cited inscription right on the mask. I've also seen profs carrying around 4 foot square sheets of sheet steel without gloves on, and 'free cutting' tiny pieces of wood on a table saw using nothing but rumpled paper towels as a guide.
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  #3  
Old 07-25-2006, 04:10 PM
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Cantab Cantab is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Anatomist1's right. And if you're coughing, stop work immediately until you have protection. Coughing is serious - the dust, the lining of the lungs and bodily fluids are making CEMENT in there. Sculptors I know also tend to forget that the eyes are as sensitive as the lungs, and more directly attacked by dust. Stop until you've got this sorted.
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  #4  
Old 07-25-2006, 04:28 PM
anatomist1 anatomist1 is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

By the way, has anyone tried the North Half Mask on that page? I have always used 3m, but that silicone face seal looks nice.

Also FYI, I was fishing around on the net, and it looks like everyone else sells them for about 20% less than the place I linked.
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2006, 04:30 PM
Multi_Pass Multi_Pass is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Thank you both. I now know what to look for. I'll be getting a new mask in a couple of days and planned on stopping work anyway till I got the proper mask.

I didn't know that the eyes were that big of a deal when it came to dust. I use eye protection but they ony protect my eyes from large flying particles. Dust does get under them and I can see the dust collecting on the back of the glasses.

I used goggles similar to those in the picture in Chemestry, I hope I can find some that are shaded because it's really bright outside where I'm working and it hurts my eyes to constantly stare are a bright white stone while I'm working.

Btw, my teacher doesn't want us to really just use those paper masks. He knows they aren't good for you but since the school I'm going to is soo new, they don't have the funding for all of the proper equipment yet. But he also hasn't worked much with stone himself and didn't know exactly which one I should be using. And I hate going to Home Depot because no one ever really knows what's going on, so it's best to know what you want before you go there.
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  #6  
Old 07-25-2006, 04:37 PM
Multi_Pass Multi_Pass is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Quote:
Originally Posted by anatomist1
By the way, has anyone tried the North Half Mask on that page? I have always used 3m, but that silicone face seal looks nice.

Also FYI, I was fishing around on the net, and it looks like everyone else sells them for about 20% less than the place I linked.
Really? I'll look around then.

That North half mask, is that one a one size fits all? I looked at a couple other ones and they have different sizes (small, medium, and large) to choose from but the North one didn't.

The one thing that would suck about ording a mask online that comes in different sizes is that I don't know what size I would need.
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  #7  
Old 07-25-2006, 05:09 PM
anatomist1 anatomist1 is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multi_Pass

The one thing that would suck about ording a mask online that comes in different sizes is that I don't know what size I would need.
That's why I recommend going to an actual safety supply storefront in your area, if possible. You should be able to figure out sizing and stuff there, and returns/exchanges will be easier. You probably don't want to wait around for shipping either.

I don't think you'll have any problem if you go with 3M. They have different sizes and cartridges, and are available almost everywhere (paint stores, etc...). The big issue with the seal for me is facial hair. Technically, you are supposed to use vaseline or shave. I keep it trimmed really short, and I've never done either, but I also don't use it for long periods, and don't use it to keep out fumes that are deadly or anything. I figure a softer seal could only help. For me, it's just occasional spray finishing with the organic vapor cartridge, and the particle filter for stuff like working drywall and grinding steel. I'd be more concerned with carving stone, or dealing with seriously toxic fumes, especially anything for long periods.
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2006, 05:21 PM
Multi_Pass Multi_Pass is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Ah well, I don't have to worry about facial hair then because I'm a girl (I think I'd have even more problems on my hands if I did though :P).
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  #9  
Old 07-25-2006, 05:31 PM
tobias tobias is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Hi Multi Pass I think you are right you would have more problems if you had facial hair.lol Anatomist I use north respirators and have used the half mask now i use the full face I found that the half mask fogged up the glasses too much . I find that I can get the replacement filters cheap for this north stuff and I also found that it was lighter than the 3M mask. another good thing about the full face is that it has a double seal . Granted it is heavier than both 3M and north half masks but I dont think I could go back. I use the pancake style filter instead of the cartirdge its longer life and cheaper.
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2006, 05:39 PM
G. Murdoch G. Murdoch is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

I use a full face respirator made by MSA. Should be available at any industrial supply / safety place.

Graham
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  #11  
Old 07-27-2006, 08:33 PM
Multi_Pass Multi_Pass is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Alright, I'm having a difficult time here. I'm looking at the prices online and some of them are a little too high for me. Over $100 is way too high. The cheaper the better.

I saw one of those north masks on sale on e-bay, but it didn't come with any filters and if I bought it without the filters, I don't know what kind of filters I should get for it. I'm new to buying these and I don't know enough about them.

I went to the Home Depot today to see what they had and this guy that was apparently the "extert" of the tools section was a total douche and not helpful at all. He treated me like some chick who doesn't have a clue about anything and totally brushed me off. He said that with the tools I was using (a dimond bladed grinder) that none of the dust was flying into my face and that it was all falling on the ground. Which is total bull because that dust is flying directly into my face.

So since I'm new to this guys, could you list what you use and and what you use it for? So far this is the only place of I know to go that's actually helpful.
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  #12  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:22 AM
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desertrock desertrock is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

My respirator uses a hydrogen flouride and P100 particulate filter.
You can buy it at Home Depot for about $20 with 2 cartridges included.
I have yet to learn of a better unit except a respirator that provides a positive air flow through the mask from an air supply hose. Those can get pricey. It's on my wish list.

This thread also has info and links on silica exposure and safety.

http://www.sculpture.net/community/s...ead.php?t=3212
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:07 PM
Multi_Pass Multi_Pass is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Ok, I have another question. I found a full face mask, it's a little out of my price range, but I like what it has to offer. Here's the link to it:
http://www.rjsafety.com/RS6.html

It's called AdvantageŽ 1000 Full-Face Respirators, SM805414- Small Advantage 1000 with speaking diaphram and nosecup- $190.00

Remember I'm working with white marble and another stone I forget it's name but it's very soft (harder than soap stone) and is a pale light greeen but when polished becomes a very dark green to almost black. All I remember is that it's a stone from Canada.

Is there another site for this type of mask that might be even cheaper? And is this even the right mask for me?
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  #14  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:10 PM
G. Murdoch G. Murdoch is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Having used both styles of respirator, both full faced and similar to the one pictured above, I have found that the full faced model provides much better protection, both for the lungs and the eyes. The filters to use are fine particle filters. Cost is always an issue when selecting tools, however putting a ceiling of $100 on respiratory and visual safety boggles me. How much are your eyes and lungs worth?

Graham
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  #15  
Old 07-28-2006, 07:34 PM
Multi_Pass Multi_Pass is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Murdoch
Cost is always an issue when selecting tools, however putting a ceiling of $100 on respiratory and visual safety boggles me. How much are your eyes and lungs worth?

Graham
I've never purchased these items before. I've never needed them, so I had no idea how much they are supposed to cost. Now that I see the price for them, I don't know if I can afford to continue working. I need to work on my current projects, but I don't have the quipment and I most certainly don't have the money for the equipment. So right now I'm at a loss.

I'm going to try and contact the guys in Art City (in Ventura CA) to see if they know where I can get these items cheaper.

My lungs and eyes are worth a lot to me, that's why I've stopped all work. But now nothing is getting done.
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  #16  
Old 07-29-2006, 10:33 AM
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desertrock desertrock is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Seems to me that the HD P100 for $20 could give you the protection of the $180 mask. The P100 filter is the same rating cartridge as the more expensive one. Wear eye protection until you can afford the more expensive mask. I feel comfortable with the mask I use.
I have had the experience of coughing from silica exposure once when cleaning up silica sand while remodeling a bathroom last year. I didn't use an adequate filter, and my lungs felt it.
I asked my doctor 3 weeks ago about that incident, and he said it was very unlikely that I did any damage as silicosis comes from years of repeated exposure. He did however schedule a complete spirometry (lung exam) for me which I did last week. (I'm a smoker). It's a test of lung capacity and performance in a close system (booth). You breathe through a large tube and follow instructions from the technician on how to breath during the test.
The test is very damanding on your lungs, requiring you to breathe shallow, then deeply, then hard-fast long exhales until your start stomping your feet for the next breath, and the veins are popping out all over your head. Fun test. The good news was that I had great lung capacity (7.25 liters) and elasticity (genetically gifted as the technician stated it) but only 77% of efficiency for exchange of gases. So there is some damage from smoking.
My next stop is a chest xray next week.
All that said, I still want to buy a more efficient respirator.....and stop smoking.
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  #17  
Old 07-29-2006, 11:08 AM
Multi_Pass Multi_Pass is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertrock
Seems to me that the HD P100 for $20 could give you the protection of the $180 mask.

All that said, I still want to buy a more efficient respirator.....and stop smoking.
I'll have to check that one out. It's not like I don't want to pay that much for a respirator, I really do. It's just that I can't afford it at all.

I used to smoke as well. The old school I went to, it was uncommon for people to be in an art class and to not be a smoker. I used to take multiple smoke breaks with my old sculpture teacher. I would smoke in art class the way a smoker smokes when they've been drinking alcohol. And sometimes when there weren't any other teachers around, my sculpture teacher would let us smoke inside of the classroom.

Quiting smoking is hard. You have to have a good reason to quit otherwise it's almost impossible. And apparently our health really isn't that good of a reson, otherwise we wouldn't have started in the first place.

I think quitting smoking when you're creating art is as hard as trying not to smoke when you've been drinking alcohol. It's a social thing a lot of the time and sometimes (with a foundry) there's a lot of waiting involved or a lot of frustrating work (such as putting on all of the gating).

What helped me quit is when I switched schools (plus my bf hated it and really wanted me to quit). Everyone except one person (who looked like Gimli from The Lord of The Rings) didn't smoke. With only one person there who smoked and no one else for me to be social with while smoking, it made it easier to quit.

I started out by never smoking at home around my bf, to only smoking at school, and then when I switched schools, there wasn't anyone to smoke with and I lost the desire, so I just quit. I do smoke every now and then when I visit my sisters (who are both smokers) but I only see them about twice a year now, if that. Right now I'm at the point where I can smoke for a couple of days with them and then when I leave them, I don't desire smoking after I leave so I never got out and buy my own.
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Old 07-29-2006, 11:40 AM
Multi_Pass Multi_Pass is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

OK, I found this site where some of the half masks seem to be at a low price, but I don't believe that they all come with filters, so I'd have to purchase the filters as well. I'm going to put together a combination of things to buy and please tell me if this is right.

The site:
http://www.probuy.net/dir/26.html?lo...hlimit=39&sh=d

The respirator (to my understanding it's price is $24.50):
http://www.probuy.net/products/3M7500.html

Or this one (to my understanding it's price is $26.95):
http://www.probuy.net/products/770030.html

Ok, so, if I were to get either of those:

- Is it the right kind?

- There's a list of things you can include in your purchase, I know I don't need all of them, but I don't know which ones to include.

- Is my understanding of the prices for them correct? I ask this because one site I went to had a nice low price listed but in smaller print it said you had to make multiple payments.
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  #19  
Old 07-31-2006, 08:13 AM
tobias tobias is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

If you are going to use either of these you will need saftey glassesbut they both should work you will need to get filters as well. You dont need any of the organic vapour stuff unless you are doing any work with that sort of stuff. It doesnt matter what kind of stone you use the particulate filters are what you wantthe north is the one i would recomend but you need to know what size you are . I dont think buying one of these online is a good idea cause if you dont know your size the mask will be useless. So go to a phone book look up safty supplies or tools phone a few and ask what they have then go there tell them what you are doing and they will fit you. I agree with you about the home depot they are morons for the most part but you can get a respirator there its just not as good as going to the right place and getting the right stuf for your purposes.
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Old 07-31-2006, 11:16 AM
Multi_Pass Multi_Pass is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Ok, I found the B & R Tool and Supply Co. in Ventura. Ventura isn't that far from Camarillo (where I am) so I'll be able to check it out soon. I looked at their website and it said that they do have respirators and other tools that I need for polishing my marble piece. They didn't list their prices so I'll have to call before I head over there.

Thank you for your help.
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  #21  
Old 07-31-2006, 10:42 PM
G. Murdoch G. Murdoch is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

Hi Multi Pass,

I didn't consider the possibility that your budget ceiling was set by personal finances, I apologize, and empathize. I know what it is like to have to put creative projects on hold until the tool budget gets topped up from outside sources (non-creative work). If you visit an industrial safety place, and find a model that fits, then perhaps purchase online through ebay. My last respirator was purchased this way, I got my favorite MSA full face for about $70-, instead of the $280- I would have paid in the store.

Good luck.

Graham
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  #22  
Old 08-04-2006, 04:24 PM
bobh bobh is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

All the posts are very interesting and informative. I have an additional problem... Without glasses I'm blind. Can anybody suggest a full face resperator that will allow me to wear glasses with it? Thanks.
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  #23  
Old 08-05-2006, 11:47 AM
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Julianna Julianna is offline
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Re: Respirator Needed for Stone Carving

I use the Techno mask by Respro (a company in the UK). The mask was designed for cyclists, but it filters: Hydrocarbons including Benzene & Pyrene, Nitrogen Oxides, Sulphur Dioxide, Lead Oxide, and Black Smoke. Sub-Micron Particulates including Pollen Dust, Rape Seed Dust, Irritant Dusts and Clay Dust.

It's good for my purposes because I don't create a high amount of dust (or send it flying all over the place; I don't use many power tools) and it's quite compact. I can wear standard goggles without the mask getting in the way. The only downfall is that it's quite difficult to find them---try a sports store.
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