Bone Yard

[Aaron Schroeder]

Deciding when a piece is done is hard enough, almost as hard or even harder is deciding where a piece begins. when one is lacking a muse ......the bone yard is always there. No need to take a break or ease up, material has been waiting and must be attended too. The bone yard is a great place to start what could be the most signifagant and enduring piece.

[GlennT]

I think the boneyard is a metaphor for the subconscious mind, a hodgepodge of random accumulated thoughts, feelings, discards and deletes. It may be a resource, but in my opinion not the best place to be searching for inspiration.
For that, look to the superconscious mind, get energized there, and then let the magnetism of that mind pull the necessary elements out from the scrap pile of past accumulation and fashion something anew.

[ironman]

Hi, I agree with Glenn that the bone yard isn't the best place to be searching for inspiration. It is if all you're doing is Found Object work but, and I'm not denigrating all you F/O sculptors out there, when you get beyond F/O sculpture and into more sophisticated stuff the bone yard is only good for an occasional F/O piece done as a change of pace from the more serious stuff.
Have a great day,
Jeff

[evaldart]

"sophisticated"..."serious"...C'mon Jeff, You know that those two words have nothing to do with style or medium. I could just as easily say that once you've moved beyond 16 guage (which will not survive any boneyard stay) and into a more mature thickness such as 1/2 inch, you will be doing "serious" geometric abstraction.

[StevenW]

The best dishes start with the finest ingredients available and it's a good thing to have a well stocked pantry. That said, too much or a messy kitchen can lead to outright chaos.

There's a balance between having too much and not enough and running clean and efficient in everything..

[ironman]

Hey Eval, A bone yard is essential to any sculptor but if F/O work is all you do then I don't think you've moved beyond what, to me can best be described as student work.
F/O sculpture is very often whimsical and charming (and very often overwrought to the detriment of that whimsy and charm) leading the sculptor down a path to ego gratification without introspection.
F/O work is also not a true expression of the sculptor but is one that is filtered through preexisting shapes, sizes and whatever else is lurking in the bone yard.
When your inspiration comes from some outer source, 1/2 inch plate for example as opposed to a 16 gauge piece that has been wrought to a shape designed by you and expressive of YOU, then that 16 gauge piece is more sophisticated. I'll give you that, it may not be more serious!
Take David Smith for example, he did many F/O sculptures but they don't hold a candle to his more sophisticated CUBI series.
Have a great day,
Jeff

[evaldart]

Jeff, in the hands of a properly creative person, the "found object" is objectified or transformed away from its history. Students merely learn to weld by using found objects...they never consider composition, those are exercises that you refer to...not Art. Yeah, you and the critics think Smiths cubi were so great but I think that his Voltri stuff is far more serious and sophisticated than the geometrics; the peak of his career. The cubi were more about surface, the possibilities of stainless, reflection, grind-patterns...NOT form. Form actually occurs from the inside-out, not the other way round (as it seems) Hollow forms are usually just that...hollow, more student exercise (of course there are exceptions).

Perhaps you are becoming more interested in surface issues such as color which has caused a diminishing in your interest in reclaimed steel as an offering matter.

I will admit to a growing interest in the possibilities of geometry but cannot yet get past the cardboard maquette aspect of the whole thing. Its easy to make a stack of flat sheets more visually pertinent than they were...but its quite a challenge to improve-upon a mass of material that already posesses physical substance and visual richness.

[suburbanartists]

Anyone can make chicken soup from descent ingredients. The best chefs are the ones able to make it from chicken shiiiit.

[suburbanartists]

Ironman - you have the same argument as perry ferral (porno for pyros & janes addiction) that any musician that samples any piece of another's music has then not created an original song and whatever the outcome,it is below true original music. This was aimed at all the rappers stealing melodies, lyrics, samples from others. Basically saying all sampled work is beneath pure original songs. But where would that leave cover songs?. In my mind most don't come close to the originals but then there is "all along the watch tower" by Jimi Hendrix. It is his song. And after Bob Dylan heard him play it he basically stopped playing it himself because Jimi had taken it so far past and above dylan's original he knew he couldn't perform his own song anymore because jimi did it so much better. He recognized this no matter how big his ego was. So i equate this to your found art argument and see it as closed minded.

[GlennT]

Originally Posted by suburbanartists

Anyone can make chicken soup from descent ingredients. The best chefs are the ones able to make it from chicken shiiiit.

Sorry to pick a bone with you on the boneyard thread, but this is the type of bumper-sticker thought that sounds clever, but is not true. For one thing, no chef cooks with chicken s---t, obviously. So much for being literal. But even speaking figuratively, the best chefs choose the best ingredients that they can find, because they know that great food starts with great ingredients. Then they add their skill and creativity. Being able to make something good from lousy indgredients is creative and useful, but that does not make them the best. It makes them resourceful.

[evaldart]

Glenn, you tell that to my six-egg and inch of baloney omellette. Smother that baby in Lousiana hot sauce and you've got better than anything. FUEL, baby. And it works.

Fancy ingedients, fancy guitars, fancy clay, fancy metal...none of it can save you. Professional? What the hell is that? GOOD STUFF is all we want...good stuff.

good stuff

[GlennT]

Well, since you live in New york, which recognizes the best in everything, go for it! Open up a 5 star restaurant which features the Louisianna-style baloney omelette. (call it the Smothers Brothers glom-lette) Maybe your nest eggs are in omelettes!

[suburbanartists]

French onion soup. - Onions,broth, ok cheese and stale bread. Not the best ingredients, cooked right...... unbeatable.

the french cooks make great dishes from low quality, low desirable foods all the time.

Who in their right mind would suck down slimy snails, or boney frogs legs much less pay a premium if some frenchy didn't find a way to cook them up into delicacies.

Both Tough nasty cuts of meat and tough nasty cuts of scrap iron can be made into mouth watering treats if beaten and cooked just right.

Prime cuts of meat can be cooked to magnificence by any idiot with a grill.

[ironman]

Hi Suburbanartist, you can equate it any way you want but I'm not talking about borrowing from other artists but using preexisting shapes which I guess you could called borrowed, but I'm simply stating that F/O art is not the equal of more conceptual thought out pieces that represent what an artist wants to say. When doing F/O work the artist is using preexisting shapes, not something drawn out 20 times over or thought about for days on end.
We've all seen that F/O bullshit at craft fairs and most of those so called artists couldn't put a real sculpture together if they tried.
The serendipity, whimsy and charm that CAN BE inherent in F/O work is mesmerizing to the little minds with no talent.
Hi Evaldart, "The CUBIS were about surface?????? I don't think so! If you can't see the power of the forms in that work, we're not looking at the same stuff!
As far as me saying F/O work is at best student work, I only said it that way because I couldn't think of another way to put it.
As far as those F/O pieces being transformed away from their history, yeah that may be but with little creative effort and a mind that can't conceive of a more conceptual or thought out expression of what they want to say.
I am interested in shape, color, form, lights and darks, shadow, weight and anything else under the sun that will allow me to express what I want to express.
Picasso once said something to the effect that if he started a painting and it came too easy that he would rub it out and start over because he didn't trust those easy solutions. That's the way I feel about F/O work, I distrust its solutions because they've come too easily and it's that mesmerizing stuff and a big ego that blinds some people to those easy solutions.
I've been doing this shit since the early 70s and have gotten many more oohs and aahs from my F/O work than I ever did from what I consider my more serious stuff. But, I've gotten more quality feedback for the serious stuff from people I consider more knowledgeable, feeling and passionate about art than the average gallery goer.
Perhaps Eval, you can't get past the cardboard maquette stage of your geometries precisely because they require greater creativity, greater thought and much more hard work to see them through to completion.
So, put down that bottle of genny and get to work!
You know, we're all following the same path but in different ways and I love the passionate dialog that exists here. It reminds me of Thoreau's poem, "A Different Drummer"
"Let him step to
the music which he hears
however measured
or far away."
Have a great day,
Jeff

[cooljamesx1]

our right ironman everyones stupid and only selective feedback matters...

no more easy solutions for you...

[evaldart]

Hollow is hollow Jeff, and if you're not moving around the metal, then you might as well get with Thoreau and the scribblers. Qualiity is someones elses snotty opinion, so quantity wil have to do. "genny?" no real beer drinker would touch that stuff - its for the amateurs... like sheet metal. I'm not the intellectual type, like you. I believe in my hands, and trust them much more than my brain. Anyone can dream things up - and then find the easiest way to do it. I like the challenge of manipulating something that should not be manipulated, something that resists my efforts by physics...I want to make the Art that shouldn't be here...and lots of it. "Work", hah...that word just proves the ultimate unintelligence and failure of the written or spoken word. AKSHUN...thats what you and I are here for. So order up some 1/2 plate and figure out how to make real work outta those shapes...because the shapes must indeed be good, and you're better at that than me, but you got to give them substance...give them a real life.

[StevenW]

I learned how to make french onion soup from Albert Ngyuen, he is a master chef from the Cordon Bleu who still works in the Bay area. Very humble and soft spoken, he left Vietnam as a kid during the war and grew up in France and attended the academy where very few foreigners were accepted. Anyway, a real french onion soup has simple ingredients, sure, but the process is anything but simple. It was Julia Childs who told me not to confuse simplicity with unsophistication, they're two completely different things and she was right.

First for the soup, braise 20 lbs of beef bones in a shallow pan overnight at 275 degrees coated with olive oil, 1 bunch parsely, whole fresh garlic and 1&1/2 cups of port wine. Next morning peel 20 lbs of onions and slice on a bias. In a heavy cast iron pot add 2 sticks unsalted butter and sweat the onions on low heat for 1 hour until they begin to break down. Take your beef bones and add 2 gallons of water and cook on medum-low heat until reduced to 1/2 gallon and add salt and pepper to taste (this can take 6 hours). Continue to add more butter and a splash of olive oil to your onions to keep them from burning and gradually increase the temperature every half hour until the onions are fully caramalized (stir occasionaly and do not allow the onions to scorch). For the crostinni, slice 1 baguette on a bias and coat liberally with olive oil and garlic and fresh parmesean cheese and toast in an oven for a few minutes until golden brown. Slice freh provolone, grueyere or an aged swiss and set aside.
Strain the reduced consomme and add the caramilized onions and heat to just below boiling. Note, if you boil the consomme it will break down the flavor. Once the soup is piping hot, add two crostinni's and 2 slices of cheese and brown it in a salamander or oven set to broil for a minute or two. Serve with a sprig of fresh parsely..

The ingredients are not particularly unique and one could substitute a different cheese and create endless variations on the theme, but the basterdized American version of boiled beef broth made from cubes and stale bread and swiss is pig food in comparison.. In this sense I agree with Jeff in that all over the fairs and shows there exists the equivelent f/o slop for the art connosiuere's who wish only to stuff their drooling mental bellies with glossy eye candy. On the other hand I can see Evaldart stirring dutifully away for days on end until something solid arrives, paying close attention that it doesn't scorch or bleed dry of its flavor..

Fascinating points of view, but whether it's 1/2" swiss or 16 provolone it's all about how you see it through..

[suburbanartists]

Originally Posted by ironman

Hi Suburbanartist, you can equate it any way you want but I'm not talking about borrowing from other artists but using preexisting shapes which I guess you could called borrowed, but I'm simply stating that F/O art is not the equal of more conceptual thought out pieces that represent what an artist wants to say. When doing F/O work the artist is using preexisting shapes, not something drawn out 20 times over or thought about for days on end.
We've all seen that F/O bullshit at craft fairs and most of those so called artists couldn't put a real sculpture together if they tried.
The serendipity, whimsy and charm that CAN BE inherent in F/O work is mesmerizing to the little minds with no talent.
Hi Evaldart, "The CUBIS were about surface?????? I don't think so! If you can't see the power of the forms in that work, we're not looking at the same stuff!
As far as me saying F/O work is at best student work, I only said it that way because I couldn't think of another way to put it.
As far as those F/O pieces being transformed away from their history, yeah that may be but with little creative effort and a mind that can't conceive of a more conceptual or thought out expression of what they want to say.

So then if i think about a piece for a year, draw it 100 times, discuss its etherial concept with sophisticated people and then go to the junk pile to pull out 100 pieces of scrap rebar to be rebent and forged to create this sculpture than where does that stand in your mind?

I say none of this matters one bit.
Pre-thought, huge thought, no thought. Intellectuals make plenty of junk from perfectly good materials.

I see your points, but It goes both ways.

[evaldart]

Of course BOTH sides are correct, or niether...a sufficiently creative and hard-working individual can make something good out of ANYTHING. And no one else even has to agree with him that it is good.

I just think it takes some nerve to walk into the boneyard thread and start talking trash about found objects. But, I guess we're all up on our tetanus shots, right.

[suburbanartists]

This is like a Rococco Vs. Shaker argument.

[ironman]

Hi, I mentioned that Thoreau poem because it has been hanging in my studio for 30 years and I'll bet it fits ALL of us.
I have a bone yard and only got into this fracas with you guys when I mentioned that I agreed with GlennT about the bone yard "not being the best place to search for inspiration".
It's GlennTs fault, not mine! LOL
If expressing and elaborating on my thoughts is talking trash, well so be it!
Of course both sides are correct and I'm due for a tetanus shot, last one was 12 years ago when I stepped on a nail while building my studio.
The nail was sticking out of a piece of wood and I needed to hit the wood with my hammer to dislodge it from my foot.
I digress, so back to the topic at hand.
Hey, there's plenty of good if not great found object work done over the years but it's just not for me to make that sort of sculpture except as a diversion into a more playful realm of creativity.
Hi Cooljamesx1, Don't you know people whose opinions matter more to you than others, people who can go beyond the "I like that piece, it's really nice" and actually elaborate on their thoughts beyond those inane pleasantries?
In the late 80s I participated in an art happening/weekend, painting, sculpture, music and dance in Tompkins Square Park in N.Y.C. I shlepped 3 abstract F/O sculptures there in my p/u and a somewhat inebriated homeless guy walks by and says "What's that?, I said, "I'm not sure what it is", and he said, "well it looks like a TIRED MULE to me, it's a tired mule". That to me is much better and more honest feedback than "that's nice".
Rococco vs. shaker, not sure which side I'd take, don't really like either style. One way too decorative and one way too sparce!
Have a great day,
Jeff

[GlennT]

On the Rococco vs Shaker, they both have their uses.
With Rococco, you can take your die grinder and shave off the excess frippery, and get it down to some nice figurative work.
With Shaker, you have some nice looking raw material out of which you can carve something.

Sorry you got into hot water by agreeing with me, Ironman. As you've learned, it's not easy being me. You have to take a position on some issue and stick with it while the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune come whistling by. Nothing that an old crusty like you can't handle!

[Mr. Malloy]

I agree with both sides. And I still believe that Evaldart is right. And I agree that the craft shows are full of idiots making "crafty" F/O stuff and it sells! I have toyed with the idea of making crap like that because it will sell. I am making no money now but I also only desire to make art not old tin cans turned into little pigs and such because middle-American hosewifes like them for "lawn-art" NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree with the student art phenomena you spoke of, I resent that you imply thats all that can be done with Found objects. I turn them into something else! I am putting a shot of my boneyard on here just for kicks

I realize that that is a bad image because it is so big and here you do not see much metal. I also think about what eval said about the tarps and palats because grass is a problem here.

[ironman]

Hi Mr. Malloy, Of course you turn the found objects into something else, that's the charm of that process but to me it's almost like playing "charades".
Instead of tugging at your ear and saying "sounds like", you're looking at an object and saying "looks like".
I just think there's too many untalented slugs out there who happen to have a welder and do this stuff and think they're artists. Of course, we live in the free world and they're certainly entitled to do what they want.
I do occasionally make F/O sculpture myself, but it's done just as a change of pace from what I consider my more serious and better work. I also wouldn't even consider showing that work in the galleries that I'm affiliated with.
Back in the early 80s I had a show of F/O sculpture and one critic said, "while the work is charming, it doesn't advance the genre of F/O work." or something to that effect. Well, he was right, I wasn't trying to advance "the genre" and was too caught up in the charm of it to see past the oohs, aahs and the ego gratification, thinking that I was doing real sculpture.
Anthony Caro is the "ne plus ultra" of F/O sculptors and it's certainly a respected genre in the right hands. I just find too many wrong hands doing that sort of work.
Glad to hear you resisted making that crap and other lawn art stuff.
Have a great day,
Jeff

[StevenW]

Just out of curiosity, I wonder if anyone has a boneyard that is stacked neatly and well organized, with such and such on this side and this and that stacked in rows etc... Like a parts shop.. No offense to anyone, but some of this looks like the aftermath of a tornado.

I can't get anything done in a messy environment, I need a certain level of organization before I begin working, tools laid out on the table and so on... I've learned that if I need to change a diamond bit or switch to another tool and spend 1/2 an hour looking around for it that it ruins my working session, not to mention my mood.