best way to make life-size whale?

[crvenka]

I am a figurative sculptor, and was recently approached by a small town community abroad that would like a life-size whale sculpture, but of course they have very little money. I thought of using cement over a wire mesh and steel rods for support. But there may be better and cheaper ways to do this. Maybe a spray foam over the wire frame? or some kind of combination of carved foam and support frame, and a coating like the flexible roof coating? This is of course an outdoor piece that will be exposed to warm moist sea air. I would appreciate any suggestions very much.

[cheesepaws]

Right, first you take your dead whale (I am assuming you will be using a dead whale as I have run into great difficulty trying to take a mold off a live one!) and slather it blow hole to tail in petroleum jelly. Then you take roughly 3 tons of plaster and….

Seriously though - I would use the promised commission to secure state funding for materials and enough money to run your designs by an engineer or a sculptor who specializes in public works. I bet the town would be patient enough to wait and do this the right way. (The “right way” being in a manner that looks good, has longevity and on which nobody will get injured).

I like the challenge that you put forth though….hmmm? I have to think about it.

[ahirschman]

Re-Bar & cement. Have leftover cement donated. Make the form with re-bar and slowly acquire the cement. The sculpture may take years to complete, but it will be cheap (In materials).

An alternate to this would be to sculpt the whale submerged in soil, only showing parts of the tail and blow hole. That will be much cheaper.

Ari.

[tonofelephant]

Maybe use gunnite (sp). The sprayable cement used to cement up in-ground pools.

Carl

[GlennT]

Originally Posted by cheesepaws

Seriously though - I would use the promised commission to secure state funding for materials and enough money to run

"...For the hills!"
is how I thought that sentence was going to end.

Another method to investigate, although I no direct experience with to advise on, is using an inflatable interior form and spray it with shotcrete, as is done in some architectural applications such as for domes and irregular curved surfaces.

[Aaron Schroeder]

The best way to approach a whale size project is to start small. If this small town community is serious, they will pay you to produce a number of maquettes which will enable you to make all your prelimanary mistakes on a small scale at minimal expense. A finely constructed maquette can also function as a template, a communication device, a means to arrive at an exact material estimate, a step by step set of instructions. Don't short change yourself or your clients by skipping this very important step. Do it small however many times it takes to get it just right. Then scale up.

If at all possible, design this project so you can make most of it in your studio, take it apart, transport it and put it back together on site. No telling how many delays you may face during the fabrication process. If things should fall through on your clients end at any point in the project, you'll at least have a whale that you can sell or donate to someone else. Stuff happens.

Bare in mind that big things outside expand and contract on a daily and seasonal basis. Your sculpture will self destruct over time. Your design and selection of materials will dictate how long your work will remain in the public eye before someone decides that it must be removed. Factor an uninstall into the picture, make it easy and cheap.

The best large scale sculptors tend also to be really good small scale sculptors. Albert Paley started out as a gold smith and to this day makes liitle models before he goes big ( check out his web page ). Make some small whales before you make a big mistake.

So, what kind of whale are we talking about ?

[underfoot]

Great advice Aaron,
maquettes are also great for photoshopping the full scale sculpture in situ,

I would suggest presenting the commissioners with what you can make for the available budget, ( even if it's only 5ft long)
then explain what it would cost for something really spectacular in bronze.

[crvenka]

Thank you all for your time and advice! It is heartwarming to feel so much support from fellow artists. I'll post a note about it when the project moves along.

Crvenka

[sculptor]

crvenka

it really don't get much cheaper nor stronger than concrete and rebar

you didn't say what the budget is
nor cost of materials at location

so all is a wild guess

if a client came to me and asked me to design a sculpture without discussing budget, i'd find something else to occupy my time

as re foam and spray on roofing
i find that a highly entertaining , really short term amusement which should last a few months
we have a series of sayings in iowa
..."build it and children will play on it" -
--"build it and a drunk will climb and/or pee on it"...etc...
...and then, there's always target practice
alternately,
a foam core,
and layer of remesh and 4" of concrete (to form a stable platform)
then stucco mesh and surfaced with stucco
allows for ease of modeling and a reasonably long life
if sealed and well maintained this could be multiple generations
it's also easy to color or patina

mentioning bronze in the same venue as "they have very little money"
is entertaining
it has been said that it took a thousand camels to haul off the bronze from the colossus
a towtruck with winch and trailer should be able to make short work of a 48 ft long whale
where're you putting this thing?

bonadventure
rod

[cheesepaws]

Originally Posted by GlennT

"...For the hills!"
is how I thought that sentence was going to end.

Why? Have you had bad luck with grants? I love all that free money.

I should make one correction though - the grant for the whale should probably be organized by a town committee (maybe someone in the mayor's office?)

If this is a temporary sculpture, like for a festival, you could do it in sand. Don't they have some resin or something that professional sand sculptors use to help support it and weather rain and wind? Could you do the re-bar/concrete thing over a sand (or earth) form - that too could cut costs.

[cheesepaws]

This seems like a good attempt by Tom Sachs.

Whale, 2006, foam core, aluminum, hot glue

[crvenka]

[quote=cheesepaws;62768]This seems like a good attempt by Tom Sachs.

Whale, 2006, foam core, aluminum, hot glue

What a beautiful sculpture! Thank you so much for showing it to me. If I understand correctly, this is carved foam inside and aluminum plate facing - if so is it weather resistant?

Crvenka

[crvenka]

I was wrong, no aluminum plating on the whale sculpture. Probably aluminum rod frame and carved foam over it, hot glue for surface protection - is that more like it?
Crvenka

[winterhoof]

A well-made maquette can also be a good way to raise money for a project. Sell a limited edition bronze casting of the maquette and then apply a portion of the proceeds to funding the large-scale version. As a conceptual alternative to selling the maquettes, offer them as incentives to donors at a certain monetary level. I've seen bronze monuments that were paid for in just this manner. Everyone who donated $10,000 or more got a copy when the project was finished.

Remember that just because the entity that is proposing the project doesn't have a lot of money, that doesn't mean that a large-budget project is out of the question.

[crvenka]

Thank you for the idea of offering bronze maquettes to donors for funding, I will try that.

Again, thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

Crvenka

[tomasElTallador]

me and my girlfriend worked for a theming companies for many years, and we have done a lot of outdoor work imitating textures in general.

whale skin is full of texture - this should be taken in mind. my girl friend should be really writing since she has done many life sized african elefants this way.

the way we generally - or theming for outdoor purposes in generally do it - i supose there is variation.. but here we go;

you will need;

* tixotropic mortar
* chikenwire mesh - galvanized
* rebaring
* lots of thick steel wire
* big blocks of styrofoam - higher density means harder work but also more resistant end results.
* PU-foam

different tools for carving the tixotropic mortar (this mortar is carved when still wet but solidifying - its like working thick wet sand..) and the tixotropic part means it can bear its own weigth - meaning its easy to aply a thickness of mortar up to several inches (up to 10 cm at times).


step by step;

* if necesary "glue" blocks of styrofoam together with PU-foam. use rods to hold the styrofoam in place while PU-foam expands.

* carve styrofoam (use hot-wire, chainsaws or what ever to quickly remove materia, use sharp filet knifes to carve fine work. carpet knifes, stanley knifes etc can work too. don exadgerate on detail at thsi moment - but make clear where u have ur things.

*while carving have in mind everything will get about 5-10 cm thicker when done!!

*when done carving, cover with rebaring structure - weld and get HELP from profesionals if necesary. styrofoam burns easy. have in mind where the biggest amounts of mortar will be - re-inforce where necesary.

*when done with structure cover the whole lot with chicken wire net, cutting it into pieces, folding, hitting with mallets etc - to get the wire into the depths of the carved whale (in this case - mouth - eyes etc u kno w what i mean)

* hold wire in place with U-shaped pieces of stiff metal wire. pierce thru netting into styrofoam.

*do not aply too many layers of netting since this will make it later dificult for the mortar to penetrate

*aply one base coat of mortar to all of the structure. if you have to do it in steps - wet the dry parts well before adding new wet mortar on top. do NOT let dry quickly since this makes ugly cracks.

*step by step aply a thick coat to parts as big as you can carve/model in 4-5 hours go.

*when done modelling and carving - aply texture with brushes or what ever to imitate the cracks and scars in the skin of a whale (only if you are after realizm)

*paint with mineral paints resistant to UV-light.

well - thats one way to do it.. there is many other too i bet

[tomasElTallador]

should just ad - a proper concrete slab to put the whole lot on is a good idea

[sculptor]

excellent fleshing out of the process
show pictures of your work?

rod

[tomasElTallador]

ìt was a few years ago - i have changed computer a couple of times since - but here is pics i have found on the net.

often these elefants we made when we were working for that particular company - were equiped with hoses inside to mount different kinds of spraying devices in the trunks -sometimes just simple shower heads made do, and also the effect was ok just using tubing and NOTHING in the end.

obviously water went thru the hose

a few links;

elefants - bad foto - situated at a luxury hotel pool in Benalmadena near malaga (Spain). My girl friend mara worked with the modelling and carving of these.

http://bp2.blogger.com/_52G5g35IxUw/...adoblog169.jpg


detail of false tree - metal structure only used, covered with chicken wire. i didnt even weld the structure in this piece since it was so small. i made these alone working for a company - now this company has invented a whole darn terminology for the different carved textures - i say bull*, its all a scam - they use the same tixotropic concrete in all of the work they did - and after the texture + mineral paint job and latex - for an un-knowing person its not easy to see its all the same material.. no wonder i left - darn scammers..

i have taken out their invented "product" names and jsut blurred it. im not here to do advertisement for them. fotos are from their ads.

anyway - just imagine the blur arent in the photos, ok?


check both link to see the secret of the tree stump ;






this last one is of an elefant done by a friend - same technique used.

[tomasElTallador]

some day when i find it - i will try to post fotos of the processes.