Getting a likeness

[furby]

Hi y'all,

i been making some sculptures of real humans lately. I find it quite difficult sometimes to get the face right. Anybody out there know how to learn to do a faithful likeness? Are there any good books around that really teach it?

i often work from photos, and i think thats making it more difficult, but i don't think i can change that, other than change the type of photos i take....

cheers
cath

[GlennT]

Regarding a book, most of us figure sculptors have consistently recommended Edourad Lanteri"s Modeling and Sculpting the Human figure,
for good reason.

[Katt]

Lanteri's is a good book-and I may be repeating him here- but I find that to get a good likeness, I must choose a particular imression/expression, of that person, and stick with it. I do a short gestural likeness first, taking a few minutes (I purposely work under the gun- and give myself a time limit) as this forces me to make decisions about the person's "look". Once that is established, I stay with it during the long process of sculpting. This way, I keep it fresh. It is easy to slow down and get stodgy in cumbersome clay-especially while taking many measurements. It is also easy to slip around between different expressions of a person- this will definately mess you up. I hope this helps.

[WillPaq]

There is no magic to rendering a likeness and nothing I have ever read or seen that will help guide you. I have done my share of them, and the simple fact is it takes painstaking hours of patience. Every nuance, every little subtlety increases or decreases the portrait. If you are on the right course, you will get a resemblance in a short time, but then each and every minute move you make takes you closer and closer.

Be patient, that is the key to a likeness that breathes life.

This is the best I have done with a likeness. It's Vincent Price from the film PIT AND THE PENDULUM.



The figure is 1/6 scale so that portrait is about an inch and a half. I did this about 14 years ago, and I remember vividly that it looked like Vincent after about three hours, but then I spent another fifteen or twenty hours refining the likeness.

Be patient.

[furby]

gee that vincent price is awesome yeah patience, hard to concentrate.... It could be i need to do the face first, not last after i did the body... while i still feel fresh.

sticking with one expression - that is a great tip - its obvious, but its too easy to get distracted when i'm studying a load of photos. Then after a while i just get lost completely, and thats scary.

I've dragged out all my sculpturing books now. Lanteri gives you a bunch of measurements to take off yr subject. I need to practice on mates, til i got the measuring side down, before i try it on a customer. I guess i got this idea about sculpture as being something that should be natural, and not measuring But probably even Rodin measured stuff when he was learning. I doubt that anyone teaches that stuff anymore, bit of a shame, but hey, like i can't imagine i would have sat still for it when i was a teenager in art school!

[GlennT]

Originally Posted by furby

It could be i need to do the face first, not last after i did the body... while i still feel fresh.

In my experience that would be a bad plan. Work on your feeling fresh.
What is going on where you don't feel fresh? Are you pressured to do a whole piece start to finish without taking a break? If it is something you love doing, how does patience run out?

It would be a shame to create a really nice face with all sorts of detail lovingly put into it, and then discover that it is not the right size for the body. Or, because it looks so nice, it draws your attention away from being more objective about the rest of the work.

It is usually most helpful to work the big picture first, and then go after the minute details once the overall construction and gesture has been nailed correctly.

[furby]

Deadlines... they are good sometimes, but other things intruded while i was doing this last work & distracted me... life & that.

I was pretty sure i would get it in the end, and i did, but the stress was pretty bad there.
The thing is you can rely on just "doing it" and feel lucky every time, but how can a person get a true mastery of this stuff? I guess its practice practice practice. Or something, thats what i'm looking for. My lack of self discipline is maybe letting me down. But then as you say, it should be enjoyable. Or should it, always? Did the Masters enjoy everything they did? I bet they spent a lot of time getting the basics down before they could "just do it".

[GlennT]

Look at what Rika just went through with her Chopin bas-relief. She has had to work and rework the piece, dealing first with large difficulties, understanding the issues, then dealing with the more subtle and difficult ones. It has been a somewhat trying learning experience, because she has had to face barriers of self-limitations and transcend them.

This is what artists who are serius about their craft do. Pushing through those barriers can be an almost agonizing process, but then once you make the break-throughs it turns into a real joy. When you get past earlier limitations and gain more confidence, then it becomes more fun. Even though the issues that one would like to master are still there to challenge oneself, past experience now tells you that it is possible...it just requires that you give it your all.

[Alfred]

*I just finished writing this note and I realize it's quite long - My apologies for the epistle on portrait sculpting*


You've gotten some good advice all around, but I'd like to add my two cents to this. I've been working on portraits for a while now, and recently i've been sculpting 1/6 scale portrait heads (like Willpaq). It was said earlier that there is no real secret or magic to getting a likeness, and that's true for the most part. I would say that the secret or the magic lies in your willingness to put in the work and not get discouraged. Like with all sculpture, observation is one of the most important things you can master. Learning to see critically and make adjustments are what separate a good sculptor from a great sculptor. If you must work with photos, make sure their consistent (not fish-eyed, or distorted from being too close). Take them at eye level, using a tripod and good lighting. When I have to use photos, I make sure to take 8 views of the head while at eye level, then I move the camera up and shoot down at an angle to the subject and again take all 8 views. I do the same from the bottom, and I make sure to get a top-down view of the head. I put all the photos on a piece of foam core laid out with the views in their corresponding place. So if I want to see a certain angle, I know exactly where to look every time. Center shots are of the face at eye level and top and bottom shots - as I move to the left, I see the right side of the head, as I move to the right, I see the left - I keep detail shots at the top of the board).

Taking measurements is also very important. You can try to trust your eye, but unless you've had the years of practice and discipline of measuring 100 times or more per head, then you're not ready to judge a piece on your eye sight alone. Our brains think they know what things look like. When I teach a class I try to tell them NOT to sculpt an eye, but to look at the forms that make up the area. If you're thinking EYE, you're going to sculpt what your mind thinks an eye is, but if you Observe, then you're more likely to sculpt what's actually there.

Also, you must not be afraid to destroy the work and start over. Too many sculptors get caught up in thinking each work is precious and they refuse to start over. Instead they noodle away at a piece, thinking if they keep tweaking it, it will get better. Sometimes the best course of action is starting from scratch. The second one always goes faster anyway.

Get opinions form outside sources. Don't ask your friends. If you're doing a celebrity portrait (which I recommend as good practice), ask the mailman, ask your neighbor, ask a person walking their dog to look at the piece and see if they recognize it. If they don't get it immediately, it needs work. Don't be let down by this, instead use it to make improvements.

And finally, a couple simple tricks. Use a mirror constantly (Is sculpt in front of two mirrors so i check different angles at any time). Look at the sculpt in the mirror at least once every 5 minutes or every time you make an adjustment. If you can, hold the piece up-side-down, that's another way to spot asymmetry. Step back from the work, every couple minutes. Look at it from across the room. Finally you can cover the work for two days, then come into your studio, study the reference material (or model if you have one), trying to memorize the face. Then uncover the sculpt and look at it with fresh eyes. You should see all kinds of things that need correction.

Good Luck, I hope this has helped

Alfred

[fritchie]

I haven't sculpted heads in some time (they always were part of a full figure), but I generally did just what Alfred said, including 8 photographs, or actually 24, with the second and third set of 8 above or below the subject's head level. The only additional thing I did is to use a small hand mirror (probably about 6 x 8 inches) that I could hold under or over the clay and under or over the live model. Mostly the clays were about 1/2 life size to maybe 1/4.

All this was in the interest of minimizing the model's time and letting me add work from photographs at my own convenience. Typically I could get the model back for corrections and additions.

[furby]

Some great tips guys, much thanks.

My plan of attack in future:
- take good photos, not rubbish ones. No fish eye lens (this helped cause me problems: i discovered my new camera was a bit wide-angle! and the subject's nose/eyes etc in the photos were too big in proportion to his head)
- do some studies of the head in question before trying to stick it straight on the body. Once i've done a head 3 times i will get much better at it. Or i SHOULD do. If i don't, then, do it 5 times. It will come, eventually, when i know it backwards. I just need to start this earlier.

i think i was guilty of 2 mistakes that i can work towards avoiding in future:
- being a smartass - knowing i'd done ok in the past & not approaching it with enough groundwork (enough 3d head studies)
- not studying the person hard enough when i had him in front of me - relying on photos. This is a part of my personality, i can't stare at people it creeps me out! Obviously thats an issue i simply got to improve if i want to be any good at portrait sculpture.

Thanks everybody

[tomdanahy]

I am unsure if you are looking for a book on the human form or for one to instruct on getting a realistic and representative face, but if it is the later, consider Phillippe Faurat's "Portrait Sculpture". If you are interested goggle him and you can order from his website. Also, if your not familiar with him or his work, I think you'll find it very interesting and impressive.

[furby]

Hmm yeah i kinda find Phillippe Faurat's stuff a bit disturbing A bit too real, hits that "uncanny valley" type situation ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley ). Uncanny valley is an interesting place to find out about but far as sculpture goes its a place to avoid... IMHO.

[tomdanahy]

Well, you said you wanted "realistic" which brings to mind, for me, the classic sculptors such as Bernini, Houdon, French and our modern contemporaries such as Coleman, Issa, MacDonald and the others who also replied to your request.
You'd probably class all of them with Faurat.
Since anatomy is the basis for "realism" and faces rely upon the skull structure and the muscles on it, to define an individual and an expression, I thought Faurat's book provided a good grounding for this.
Sorry for shocking your sensibilities.

[furby]

Naw i didn't say "realist" i said a likeness of a real person. I want the recognizability of the subject but i want to keep some life in it. Those 2 are not mutually exclusive, or at least i wish in my work they won't be.

Those sculptures are incredibly well done, just not my style & i'm explaining why they bother me, tho its only my 2c. They didn't shock me, much and perhaps in the flesh they are warmer & more attractive & less hyper-realist. But i also reckon its good to know when you've gone a tad too far. I don't want to get my work to that point (even if i could) cos i personally feel there's better places to end up.

I just want to understand how a face gets to be recognizable. I reckon old Practice is the one & only key... better get onto it. I could use a heater in the studio.. that might make my stays longer.

p.s. His book may well be quite useful. I never got to the book, i got caught up in the pictures of his work for quite some time. I'll go back & check it out.

[T Moomaw]

Originally Posted by furby

Hi y'all,

i been making some sculptures of real humans lately. I find it quite difficult sometimes to get the face right. Anybody out there know how to learn to do a faithful likeness? Are there any good books around that really teach it?

i often work from photos, and i think thats making it more difficult, but i don't think i can change that, other than change the type of photos i take....

cheers
cath

One thing, well there are many in Lanteri's book as Glenn mentioned, I found useful on the final work of a face is to place it in between side lighting as you are workin on it, it will make any mistakes absolutely visible, and it will look the same in all light sources.

Ted

[furby]

You mean a light either side at once? have not tried that... have tried various lights but not in any serious way, was just happy to have some to see by. I usually turn the sculpture to use the pathetic lights i have. Maybe i need to address this. Great idea.

[T Moomaw]

Yes, lights from both sides, direct them to the immediate sides of the face.

It then will look as you intended it to in all lighting,

if it is finished in the one light source with out side lights, then it will look how you intended it to, only in that light source.

Ted

[Giotto]

WillPaq,

Nice job ! Especially in such a small scale. Please post you website.

G

[Giotto]

As far as getting alikeness is concerned..I can't tell you haw many times I have had to talk to myself......."Look, Giotto, your a sculptor, act like one, now get back in there and get it right"

Heavy sigh,

G

[furby]

Have ordered those Faurat books, since i'm feeling a bit flush with cash (which i'm not, but u got to run with that feeling sometimes or u never get anywhere), ordered both of em. thanks guys. He sure knows his stuff even if sometimes his work scares me What i need is somewhere between my unfinished/naive & his scary, so lets go :-O

I'll probably be waiting about 3 months for the parcel but i'll post a review if i am still functioning when they finally arrive.

Speakin of books i got a copy of Sargeant Jagger's "Modelling and Sculpture in the Making" (well out of print, first pub 1933)... its just a photocopy (copyright has ended i got it from a library copy service) & the (quite informative) pics are a bit crap as copies, but its a great book, very inspiring. He mainly writes as a technical guide mainly but fascinating look at how he worked. Short, about 80 pages.