Emotions

[T Moomaw]

The topic on the other forum An Iron clad definition of Art, got me to thinking about what emotions I find myself intending to evoke within my work, I mostly lean torword some form of pain and suffering, passion, quiet contemplation.

I have to the best of my knowledge never been engaged by a piece depicting joy, happiness. Why?

The darker emotions, I find the most interesting to try and deliver within my sculptures.

What is the emotion(s) that you tend to most often depict in your work?
Ted

[craigktx]

Originally Posted by T Moomaw

The topic on the other forum An Iron clad definition of Art, got me to thinking about what emotions I find myself intending to evoke within my work, I mostly lean torword some form of pain and suffering, passion, quiet contemplation.

I have to the best of my knowledge never been engaged by a piece depicting joy, happiness. Why?

The darker emotions, I find the most interesting to try and deliver within my sculptures.

What is the emotion(s) that you tend to most often depict in your work?
Ted

i see joy and happiness as more difficult to deliver.
theres does seem to be more darker art than light art.
i rather keep my thoughts light than revisited bad experiences but darkness does creep in from time to time.

[raspero]

I have a sense of humor. I find there is humor in almost everything, and that we take ourselves way too seriously. (The Buddha is frequently depicted laughing.) My work isn't funny; the humor is more subtle than that. Perhaps it's ironic.

Then there is beauty, which is probably my principal interest. If it is not in some way beautiful, then I have little interest in making it.

R

[GlennT]

My personal view is that using art to depict dark emotions in general is self-indulgent, unless the art is not to be shared with others. There is plenty of darkness in the world of human affairs as it is. It would seem that if we care about our fellow humans we would want to lighten the load with positive emotions, not burden them with darkness.

As a working example of what I'm talking about, I am in the process of creating a public memorial for an incident in which some people were tragically killed. I could have used the artwork to indulge in the sadness and tradgedy of the experience, but instead have used the occasion to reflect on post-tradgedy healing and hope, as well as contemplation of what does the soul encounter out of the confines of the human body (as related in near-death experiences).

After taking in the information about the circumstances as well as anything the committee had to say about this, I sketched some ideas which were fine but when a vison came to me I knew it was the right one for the piece. The concept that came to me for has met with universal acclaim amongst those who have seen my model of it.

My point is that a work which revolved around the trauma of the incident would leave the viewer with nowhere to go, like a sore that does not go away. Rather, the focus now is one that includes hope and renewal, so that people in having a reminder of an incident are given the larger picture about how we move on in a positive direction, transforming grief from a moment into something profound about what life offers us, and what we make of the gift of life.

[grommet]

I find beauty as a goal indicative of a kind of complacency i can't muster.
I'm more interested in energy, curiosity, intensity, evidence of further thought.

[GlennT]

Beauty as complacency? Interesting.

I see beauty, insofar as what moves me about it, as evidence of mastery. It is a chalice of deep and profound expression.

To be sure we are talking about the same thing, this picture, posted a while back by marblecutter, as opposed to your average air-brushed playboy model, is an excellent example of inspired beauty.

[grommet]

It's a very sweet photo, but not art. More akin to advertising, something to make people go "awww" and buy the product.

[GlennT]

Art? Advertising? Product?

It's a photo. Of life. With beauty.

I think its time for me to call it a night!

[evaldart]

I suppose that "emotion" in general, light or dark, is not a powerful enough thing to drive a real work of art. Expressionists, who often get accused of emotion, are actually just stylistic "attackers" of their medium; no more emotionally driven than anyone else.

Actually, by the time you're advantaging your creative impulses you'd best be sure you've left behind any "emotional" nonsense, as it might distract you from the task at hand.

There are exactly as many "tortured" souls as there are gleeful ones. All this has nothing to do with ones creativity or Art output. "Darkeness" is not some pshychological cavern worthy of exploring and "uplifting" only really works on those folks who are light-in-the-ass.

There is a strength built-in to every individual that will let him keep his little demons AWAY from the precious things. So, no excuses.

[T Moomaw]

Originally Posted by GlennT

My personal view is that using art to depict dark emotions in general is self-indulgent, unless the art is not to be shared with others.


My point is that a work which revolved around the trauma of the incident would leave the viewer with nowhere to go, like a sore that does not go away. Rather, the focus now is one that includes hope and renewal, so that people in having a reminder of an incident are given the larger picture about how we move on in a positive direction, transforming grief from a moment into something profound about what life offers us, and what we make of the gift of life.

How is depicting dark emotions self indulgent? I am not asking from a defensive position, I just would like to understand what it is you mean by self indulgent?

Dark may have not been the best word to use.

Again, I am not being defensive nor do I want to offend, just want to understand what you mean. Because if the darker side truly means self indulgent, then so shall I be.

It is all a matter of perspective,

Ted

[T Moomaw]

Originally Posted by grommet

I find beauty as a goal indicative of a kind of complacency i can't muster.
I'm more interested in energy, curiosity, intensity, evidence of further thought.

Well put

[GlennT]

What I mean about dark emotions being self-indulgent comes from a basis of a belief in a God of Love and infinite wonder, who created the world and said, "Behold, it was good..."

Then along comes man, and then...there goes the neighborhood!

When one lives in gratitude and appreciation of the bounties of God, dark emotions are an occasional temporary condition that cloud the positive bouyancy of emotions based on aspects of love.

Human misery is a humanly created condition, and there is plenty of it to go around unfortunately. To wallow in the negatives of the human condition is what I consider to be self-indulgent because it is ignoring the efforts to rise above it and be freed from it. It is like playing in the mud, it can become an acquired taste, but it is still playing in the mud and ignoring the sunshine.

The psychology of some people is not to seek happiness but to revolve the misery. I'm not talking about being trapped in miserable circumstances, which is an entirely different matter. Those who are chronically unhappy think they have it worse than others, but everyone on earth has had to deal with some difficult s---t. Others choose to not let such things permanently drag them down, but look to the light and want to live in the happiness that is the child-like state of expectant wonder because life is full of such potential for joy and beauty. Flowers, for example, have a great attitude, as do most dogs. dogs don't revolve misery or dwell on the past. They are eager for the next fun thing to do.

Hope that ramble helps!

[jOe~]

a belief in a God of Love and infinite wonder, who created the world and said, "Behold, it was good..."

Then along comes man, and then...there goes the neighborhood!......Flowers, for example, have a great attitude, as do most dogs. dogs don't revolve misery or dwell on the past.

I agree. He got flowers and dogs right. My flowers and dog never argue with me, get depressed, wish me ill fortune, and they do love me unconditionally.

[T Moomaw]

[quote=GlennT;81551]What I mean about dark emotions being self-indulgent comes from a basis of a belief in a God of Love and infinite wonder, who created the world and said, "Behold, it was good..."

I don't see emotions as either good emotions or bad emotions, good or bad do not apply, I have known little parts of all emotions, and I would call them all neither good or bad, to me they are experiences on the human Journey.

They are all relative to one another, if it were all peaches and cream it
would be absolutely a boring journey.


We, you and I are a balance as artists, you like to depict the white and lighter side of love, I just happen to like the darker side of Love.

Thank you for explaining your statement.
Ted

[sculptor]

Originally Posted by GlennT

Then along comes man, and then...there goes the neighborhood!

rubbish and pseudo P.C. crap
If you believe in GOD you must accept (WO)MAN as we are
and were meant to be.

as re
dark emotions in art here's one from Frederick Hart

"I believe that art has a moral responsibility, that it must pursue something higher than itself. Art must be a part of life. It must exist in the domain of the common man. It must be an enriching, ennobling and vital partner in the public pursuit of civilization. It should be a majestic presence in everyday life just as it was in the past."

Why show negative and ugly emotions
unless
this is what you want of and from and for all mankind?

[grommet]

I agree there are people who wallow and perpetuate their own misery.
I believe in flowers, mudpies in the sunshine, dogs who don't bite, and random gleeful foolishness. * but I guess I should also say that I think it's absolutely okay to honestly express whatever strikes your fancy or fills a need or tickles a creative impulse. No holds barred on creativity.
I also see people who are so focused on the flowers and sunshine that they ignore people who would inflict any shadow on their world. Other people and their problems of wanting to be paid or see their children on a regular basis or making a point just magically go away.

With that in mind, the fact that there is such diversity among people keeps the art world from being a competition to see who can recreate the happiest dog in a field of flowers kissing a newborn lamb.

[T Moomaw]

Dark emotions do not somehow = ugly

Must be the word dark is linked to what are considered to be BAD emotions.
Anger, jealousy, hatred, on and on.

Dark to me, may also be, sorrow, grief, inward contemplation, any emotion that adds weight to a piece I consider Dark.

It is my belief that the lighter emotions, joy, happiness, Love, are mostly outward expressions of emotion, released on to the world.

And though a darker emotion can be outward, most of the ones that are depicted in art are Inward, weighty, sometimes heavy,
Most often a swallowed emotion. depicted as contemplation, passion, depression, grief, loss, hurt.

and very rarely in art The explosion of a swallowed emotion being expressed or realeased outward. that would be anger, hatred, rage, the big O,
passion realized,

Ted

[chris 71]

i just wanted to say something because i think my art is more often than not looking dark. but this is not my intention they just usally end up looking that way for some reason. and not because i am wanting to wallow in any sadness or pain or inflict ugliness upon the world. maybe there are some artists that do that.
but i think good and bad and ugly and beautiful all go together. how would we know what was ugly without knowing what is beautiful. and as far as gods beauty and light. and there goes the neiboughood when man came along goes.
well that happened with the first two people so gods plan at the time went out the window right when eve ate from the tree of knowlege and knew the difference from good and evil. so we and this story we are living was changed right from the beginning to what has been and what is right now.

so we are not all beautiful shinning people and flowers we are human maybe a bit of a mistake obviously something went wrong. for now anyway.

so we are what we are good and bad.

a lion pouncing on a zebra may not be a beautiful sight to some. but all must be struck with awe at the sight of power and grace that the beastie possess
and the flowers that smell like rotting flesh to attract flies to help it. the smell may not be beautiful but the flower might be its good and bad like us
cant have beauty without ugly
just a thought

[sculptor]

ok,ted
revision, if i understant your intent:

Lorado Taft comes to mind, esp.his fountain of time and the march of the doomed

http://chicago-outdoor-sculptures.bl...n-of-time.html

http://illustrationart.blogspot.com/...n-of-time.html

The dark brooding statue of time observing the march of the doomed
and the caption

"Time flies you say
but alas it is we who fly and time that stays"

really excellent stuff

rod

[T Moomaw]

Exactly, that is what I refer to when I use the word Dark.

[GlennT]

Ted, your explanation helps too. Your concept of dark emotions is not what the word had conjured up in my mind. I really like the works of Frank Brangywn, who did a lot of work in the range of emotions you are describing, as well as depicting figures that might be considered ugly, or at least lacking in any semblance of classical or near classical beauty.

In his case, the beauty is found in his incredbile gift for composition, for great use of lights and darks, for the raw strength, vigour, and presence of his works, and an eye for the beautiful amid the "ugly".

Ugly in art that I don't like would include most works by Francis Bacon and G Rouault, despite their obvious talent. I find Bacon's imagery jarring, and the evening news has enough jarring content without me needing to go to art to find more. I was inflicted with a Rouault picture at a very young age and it left an oppresive and heavy image that disturbed me and apparently still does.

I actually don't tend to paint dogs and flowers (or tra la la happy faces), I was just using those as examples in conversation, just like grommet uses conversation sometimes as though she is auditioning to be the poster child for political correctness. Because goodness and light often get the short shrift around here, I thought I would put in a good word for trying to stay positive.

[grommet]

just like grommet uses conversation sometimes as though she is auditioning to be the poster child for political correctness

good thing you're above name calling and the like.

you mean by trying to be open-minded?

[GlennT]

Originally Posted by grommet

good thing you're above name calling and the like.

Sorry, I forgot grommet is not your real name.

[Giotto]

Sculptor,
Thank you for posting tafts work. I liked it very much. I think the blog writer has it all wrong when it comes to time...to quote Einstein

"Einstein's belief in an undivided solid reality was clear to him, so much so that he completely rejected the separation we experience as the moment of now. He believed there is no true division between past and future, there is rather a single existence. His most descriptive testimony to this faith came when his lifelong friend Besso died. Einstein wrote a letter to Besso's family, saying that although Besso had preceded him in death it was of no consequence, "...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one."

In this sense Taft was envisioning Einsteins realization i.e. that time can be viewed from beginning to end as a single thing. Nice.

G

[jOe~]

Nice posts G and Rod.