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vonfrese 02-16-2014 11:26 AM

Ivory "Sculpture" Not Art
Demand for and the production of sculptural works in ivory is at an all time high. Ivory trinkets and carving is not an art as much as it is a crime against nature.

I'm stating my conscientious objection to the production, sculpting and or marketing sculpture or anything else made from ivory in the 21st century.

This activity involves most everyone connected either directly or indirectly in the suffering, destruction and extinction of the Elephant.

Vincent von Frese

Andrew Werby 02-16-2014 02:57 PM

Re: Ivory "Sculpture" Not Art
People are fond of defining art in ways that exclude things they disapprove of. But this makes the task of coming up with a universally acceptable definition of art even harder than it already is. A conscientious objection to ivory sculpture is fine - don't carve any ivory, don't purchase any ivory statuary, close your eyes in certain sections of the Asian art museum - but redefining art to debar certain materials is problematic.

Many materials are sourced in ways that harm the earth's ecology in one way or another - hardly any can be said to be totally environmentally benign. Where do you draw the line? Are sculptures made from gold still art? Or do they have to be made from post-consumer waste to qualify? How do you define art in a way that accommodates your scruples? Do you have to approve of everything about it in order for any sculpture to count as art for the rest of us? Or is your definition of art just for you?

Andrew Werby

PTsideshow 02-17-2014 05:06 AM

Re: Ivory "Sculpture" Not Art
They are going to do something now that they found the nail to hang the reason everybody can agree. Terrorists and the other child army promoters across Africa.
Obama to ban almost all dealings in Ivory
Here is another part of the orders
Along with their strategy
And since

Moreover, concerns are rising that funds garnered from slaughtering wildlife are helping to fuel terrorist groups and rogue militias across Africa. Experts also say that many of those involved in the trade are also connected other criminal activities such as corruption, drugs, human-trafficking, illegal logging, and weapons dealing.
So if you have an antique piano, with ivory keys don't tell any one in case somebody drops a dime and the feds bust down your door!

Because it may be a case of how they feel that day if they conclude whether they are legal or not.

PTsideshow 02-17-2014 01:29 PM

Re: Ivory "Sculpture" Not Art
Well it's a done deal.
White House Press release:
"Today we are also announcing a ban on the commercial trade of elephant ivory"

Robson Valley 02-17-2014 03:59 PM

Re: Ivory "Sculpture" Not Art
Let's get back to open pit mines and acid mine rock seepage, stirred up with burst rail cars of crude oil and detergent-poisoned rivers. Can you recall when the Hudson River caught fire?

With all the history and mystique associated with elephant ivory, there will always, always, be a clientele who will settle for nothing less.

mobjack68 05-06-2014 01:40 PM

Re: Ivory "Sculpture" Not Art
See what I mean, RV???

And the next thing, I suppose, will be to burn books...

Art-Deco 05-07-2014 01:09 AM

Re: Ivory "Sculpture" Not Art

Originally Posted by PTsideshow (Post 105577)
Well it's a done deal.
White House Press release:
"Today we are also announcing a ban on the commercial trade of elephant ivory"

That's a good deal then, art should not involve brutally killing an animal for a pair of tusks, for that matter neither should "wall trophies" or entertainment, but the problem is not working American families buying the stuff it's the CHINESE and others over there- because intricate ivory carvings as art has always been a big part of China.
You have police/game wardens/whatever and others in Africa going out in the wilds at big expense tranquilizing elephants, and sawing their tusks off in a last-ditch effort to keep them alive by getting rid of the only thing anyone over there otherwise seems to value- the stupid ivory for carvings!
I've seen footage of an entire herd of elephants that had been gunned down and left to rot where they fell, the only thing gone were the tusks not the meat for food or anything else.

Mining gold or silver or whatever creates pollution and all, but it doesn't directly kill large animals for nothing more than to remove one small body part off!

GlennT 05-07-2014 02:47 PM

Re: Ivory "Sculpture" Not Art
I'm stating my conscientious object to bad art, not matter what the material.

Meanwhile people, please do not kill or injure elephants.

vonfrese 02-23-2015 08:03 PM

Re: Ivory "Sculpture" Not Art
Slaughter of elephant for their ivory for art is the problem. I repeat ivory carved trinkets and decorative collector items can no longer be considered art and craft but are considered evidence greedy commercial enterprise. No matter how "pretty" the carved ivory turns out it is an ugly result of human vanity.

Leave the Elephants alone and try carving plaster, stone or anything else besides ivory and help out these great animals. The 21st century can't bear much more elephant slaughter. Artists need to be cool, not insensitive to life.

Artists who are cool will consider bearing some responsibility for the material their work is made of. The rarity of material may raise art and craft market value but it also degrades art and artists who are becoming tainted by their involvement in ill gotten material.

Ivory apparently has a reputation for being a sweet and durable carving medium but alternatives could easily be employed to replace it for crafts. Stopping the age old custom and moving to another medium might be near impossible among ancient and time honored traditions which exist but it would be a really necessary and beneficial solution to the problem of the near extinction of elephant on earth.

People studying art who choose to be irresponsible about this do not deserve the title of "sculptor" let alone "artist" under any circumstances really. How anyone call themselves sculptors and even artists and then at the same time remain insensitive about the use of ivory acquired by elephant slaughter in the 21st. century?

The destruction of innocent wildlife for profit motive and vain decoration as well is unnecessary. Pretty big money rewards for pretty nice looking little decorations are what drives the market for ivory.

The market is a big and bad one for intricately and elaborately carved ivory in China. The artisans and sellers are rewarded well it seems and the buyers are continuing to pay plenty for more a if it were clay but there is plenty of clay and only a few elephants.

Meanwhile elephants are getting slaughtered for a mere fashionable object used for two things; decoration and making money selling to collectors. These activities I feel are not worth the slaughtering of elephant families.

Art believed bad or good by whosoever judges it is as such is not comparable to elephants since art is a man made object and elephants are living beings, not conceptions and objects.

There will always be plenty of art and artists but not so with elephants and other wild animals who deserve respect enough to be protecte and to be left unharmed by people.

vonfrese 01-04-2018 11:02 AM

Re: Ivory "Sculpture" Not Art
Just recently China has announced the banning of ivory made objects of collectible art and made laws condemning any kind of ivory made product.

Late is better than never however their(China) desire for Rhino hair off of the head of Black and also the White Rhino remains to be dealt with.

To sculptors who are not concerned I say to you please be concerned. By the way what great sculpture was ever made with ivory? The answer is none because with ivory it is a trinket shop and gift shop item tourists buy, not anything to do with great art by a great artist.

Great art by a great artist is a noble goal!

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