Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net  

Go Back  Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net > Sculpture Roundtable Discussions > Figurative Sculpture
User Name
Password
Home Sculpture Community Photo Gallery ISC Sculpture.org Register FAQ Members List Search New posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-11-2006, 03:33 PM
Denis Denis is offline
Level 3 user
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eugene Oregon
Posts: 27
Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Hi All,

A few weeks ago I entered the Mayors art show..a big deal here in little Eugene Oregon. Of the 500 entries 50 are selected and of sculpture a half dozen or so. I didnít make the cut which was Ok Iím happy for those who did but then I read this statement by the lead judge, Terry Melton.

Q: What standard do you use to judge ?
A: I donít know as there are any standards , there aren't any rules anymore The french academy died in the early part of the 20th centry....That death was hastened by the 1913 Armory show in chicago....

I really donít know what to make of this statement. Is my artistic style dead ? It feels like his answer is code for a bias against realism, but then I don't know what he means by the French academy is dead.

Here is my piece, itís on the left. Itís about the way some women treat men, you can just see a knife in her right hand. It's called the "Terrorist". On the right are three works by those who did make it into the show.

I donít want sympathy or anything and I did get two sales at the ďSalon des RefuseĒ a alternative venue to the Mayors show. Any comments or experiences ?

Denis
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Mayors art show.jpg
Views:	354
Size:	50.3 KB
ID:	3946  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-11-2006, 03:48 PM
sculptor's Avatar
sculptor sculptor is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: IOWA
Posts: 1,493
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis
Hi All,


A: I donít know as there are any standards , there aren't any rules anymore
well, ...
that explains a lot

hi Denis
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-11-2006, 05:33 PM
dwright dwright is offline
Level 3 user
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 48
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

I would say you have two strikes against you;

first, the semi controversial subject matter (nude, wearing the veil, holding a knife) which any politician is going to shy away from.

Second, figurative realism.
The mayor probably knows less than zero about art, and defers to his 'experts', the public art comittee.
That's what the mayor of my town told me.
And most public art administrators are products of a university system as yet unaware of the popular resurgence of figurative realism, and still hold a bias against it.
The local public art administrator laughingly refered to bronze sculpture as ODWGHs (Old Dead White Guys on Horseback)
However, I bet it's the first one that got you.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-11-2006, 06:55 PM
fritchie's Avatar
fritchie fritchie is offline
Sculptor
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,456
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Denis - I'm originally from a much smaller place than Eugene, and I have to be careful of making waves when I'm critical of art shows. (I didn't think Eugene was all that small, and my fairly current atlas says it's almost 140,000 - not really so small. )

However, I'm not surprised to find that one of the winners was a weave - and fabric piece. That branch of art can be really creative, and I don't want to knock it on the materials alone. However, from the photo, that looks like something that could have been thrown together in ten minutes, from materials on hand, and in my experience with several community groups, jurors not infrequently give awards to just such pieces.

My impression is that jurors in shows of this sort realize many people who enter or view these shows are amateurs, and they want such amateurs to win, to encourage the growth of local art.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-11-2006, 10:04 PM
Denis Denis is offline
Level 3 user
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eugene Oregon
Posts: 27
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Hi dwright and fritchie,

This is interesting, I didn't know there was a resurgence of figurative realism. Do you know of any articles or bloggs on this ? I don't know how much influence the nude subject matter had on their selection process but I wonder if Rodin would have made the cut. I hadn't thought of the amateur aspect. My impression of the show was that most of the pieces were well made except for several pieces of assemblage art. Which were unbelievably poorly crafted....
My feeling about all this is that there is a resurgence and the days of "Everything is art" are numbered. The gallery owner who bought my piece said that realistic sculpture outsells abstract 10:1...so I take that as encouraging...unless Kinkade decides to go into sculpture.

Cheers,
Denis
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-11-2006, 10:16 PM
BMBourgoyne BMBourgoyne is offline
Level 6 user
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Posts: 110
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

My experience is that the judgements of juried shows are completely subjective and depend entirely on the personal tastes and aesthetic beliefs of the jury-- an artist really cannot read too much into getting into or being rejected by one. They are not indicative of what is "going on" in the art world, or even the real world, and really are just one more line on your resume if you are lucky enough to get in or win. Just be happy when you do, but don't give it a second thought if you don't.

Brad
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-11-2006, 10:26 PM
fused fused is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 801
Re: Rejected by the Mayor

Terry Melton is one of three jurors and I find his comments odd, although the context of his responses may have been lost in translation by the Register Guard's reporter. The 1913 Armory Show which introduced European Modernism to America occurred in New York City, not Chicago.

Maybe his reference to the French Acadamy is responding to the Salon des Refusťs accompanying this Mayor's Art show, because the original Salon des Refusťs occurred in conjunction with the Salon de Paris in 1880's France.

I'm not too enamoured with the pose of your figure Denis and as dwright already noted the title "Terrorist" doesn't benefit the work either. The images you posted along with yours are just strange creatures to my eyes and leave me wondering if you have any other pics of the art that found it's way past the jurors and into the show.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-12-2006, 02:03 PM
Denis Denis is offline
Level 3 user
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eugene Oregon
Posts: 27
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Hi Fused,

I had considered several possibilities 1) work not good enough 2) bias of judge (s) 3) controversial aspect of work

1 & 3 I have to answer for myself but #2 is of interest to me and this board because of Terrys' comments. Thank you for posting the link.

I donít believe he was responding to the Salon des Refuses but rather that he seems to be saying something about the French Academy being dead. Which I assume to mean Ecole des Beaux-arts (and Petite Ecole) i.e. Carpeaux, Chapu, Rodin etc. If he believes this then if a modern Rodin entered the show would he make the cut ? Would terry recognize great sculpture when it was in front of him ? What implications does this have for us ? Should we review the resumes of the judges before entering a show ?

I am no Rodin but I would be happy to discuss the technical aspects of my work with you, but in private. I donít want to take up the space on this board. I believe in the critique system and I would be happy to take the time to critique something our working on too. The other reason I posted here was to get to know some of you.

Cheers,
Denis
denisgrace@comcast.net
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-12-2006, 03:13 PM
ironman ironman is offline
ISC Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Silver City, New Mexico
Posts: 1,603
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Hi, The only thing I'd like to say is that if you enter juried shows, you can't be too thin skinned, if you know what I mean. Some judges lean more towards non-objective work, some more towards figurative but the best judges just look for the best work, period!
As far as the accepted works, I can't see enough of the top and bottom ones to make a judgement but the piece in the middle photo is awful. Just a decorative piece with no feeling and shows no creativity at all.
Have a great day,
Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-12-2006, 04:13 PM
Tlouis Tlouis is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 389
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Hi Denis
I'm not being facetitous when I write this but be PROUD your work was rejected. The mayor and the other blue-noses on the committee probably felt your work was too strong for what is called: family viewing. Musn't upset the public. I too have had a female figure rejected from a local show that has been held every year for the past 77 years, and through a friend who was a helper, though not a juror, during the judging, this particular figure was bounced out the door because it was deemed too erotic and liable to offend pubic sensebilities. Whatever those are. Whenever I have work rejected, I mentally award myself a gold star, because I know my work was STRONG.
As for the other pieces shown in your post: Ho. Hum.
Take care, Lou
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-12-2006, 05:47 PM
Chashab Chashab is offline
Level 3 user
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 35
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

The subject matter of your piece, "The Terrorist," made me think of a friend of mine. She always hated how her own mother treated her father, and it really strained her own relationship with her mom. It wasn't physical abuse, but she often wondered (when we were in high school, anyway, which has been more than 10 years ago) if it bordered on other kinds of abuse (a sort of manipulative deception? or the like). And these aren't the kind of people you'd ever think this of.
__________________
TheAestheticElevator.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-12-2006, 06:38 PM
Thatch Thatch is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas,Tx
Posts: 684
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Maybe it should have been called 3D entries and not sculpture. The 3 other objects that you showed might be sculptural but I wouldn't call them sculpture.

Melton talks the talk, I bet he liked your "Terrorist", but that sure isn't a safe theme that you entered. I doubt it would be picked to represent the aesthetics of any publicly elected official in the country, especially if they are Republican.

Thatch
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-12-2006, 08:55 PM
iowasculptor's Avatar
iowasculptor iowasculptor is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: midwest
Posts: 357
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

OK, don't stress too much over this, Having been on both ends of the game it really doesn't matter. When a juror juries a show it really comes down to what strikes them at that moment, some jurors enjoy one type of art and others like different work, if they all liked the same we would probably all be making the same type of work. When you win its nice but you have to remember that it is just one or a small group of peoples opinion and the same goes for when you lose. I wouldn't be too critical about the jurors statment either, a lot of times this is an afterthought rather than a pre thought out method of jurying. Often these statements are a lot like artist statments very wordy with a lot of personal politics thrown in. I have won art shows, lost art shows, been rejected and been asked to jury shows its all part of the game. In the end it really doesn't matter as long as you are showing, there are a lot of other shows out there and if you like what you are doing then you are doing better than most people in the rest of the world. Be thankful that you have an endevour that is fullfilling to you.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-13-2006, 09:16 AM
GlennT's Avatar
GlennT GlennT is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,213
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

In 2000 I installed a sculpture that some major local and national media attention. That same year I had a beautiful angel sculpture in a religious art show, and it, along with some very good work of some other figurative artists did not win any awards, yet a teenager who had created a sloppily sculpted and painted pyramid of drippy eyeballs won an honorable mention.

Fame is a very fleeting thing. Love is eternal, and when you pour that into your work it will endure well beyond the fickle tastes of art criticism.

The breadth of knowledge, experience, and divergence of perspectives of those on this site would form a much more useful and informed jury and relevant critique of artwork than what you are likely to find at a local show where its usually at the whim of some college art teacher's tastes.

Glenn
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-13-2006, 11:00 AM
iowasculptor's Avatar
iowasculptor iowasculptor is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: midwest
Posts: 357
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Hey, I'm a college art teacher
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-13-2006, 11:32 AM
GlennT's Avatar
GlennT GlennT is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,213
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by iowasculptor
Hey, I'm a college art teacher

Great! There's still hope!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-13-2006, 11:53 AM
sculptor's Avatar
sculptor sculptor is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: IOWA
Posts: 1,493
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT
Great! There's still hope!
long ago and far away
when the british were attacking french fortifications during the naploeanic wars,
one could gain advancement and/or exonerate petty crimes by volunteering to be part of the first wave of attackers breeching the bombarded opening in the enemies' fortifications
caveat; they usually took over 90% casualties, and often took 100% (no survivors)

They were known as:

"The Forlorn Hope"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-13-2006, 02:34 PM
Denis Denis is offline
Level 3 user
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eugene Oregon
Posts: 27
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Hi GlennT,
I made the show last year with three portraits of Camille Claudel at different stages of her life... youth, mid life where she went insane and as an old woman, at the end, in a asylum. No prizes. The juries award went to a blown up Xerox of a ten dollar bill splattered with red paint and the best of show went to a paper dress pattern someone glued into a dress and hung it on a hanger. I see these as manifestations of desperation in the minds of some contemporary artists...searching for anything novel to point to as justification and confirmation that the journey of modernism continues.. Maybe it's just me but I think great sculpture often isn't novel but rather (as you say) the embodiment of heart and soul in the artists voice.

Glenn, do ou have a link where I can see your sculpture ?
Cheers,
Denis
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-13-2006, 07:06 PM
GlennT's Avatar
GlennT GlennT is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,213
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

Hi Denis:

I just clicked the link from my username to my homepage, only to discover the glenn was spelled glen, leading of course to someone else's website. I've corrected it, but just for the record my website is: http://www.glennterryart.com

When Art shows reward the type of work you described, they really do a disservice to the art world by making it hard for people to take it seriously. I believe in standards a lttle higher than " anything goes " If there were seperate shows for this stuff that went under the category of " Teen angst, rebellion, anger, hatred of goodness, look-at-me-I'm-different-by conforming-to your-expectation-of-what-is-shocking, politcal cartoon art" then there might be less confusion about what is art and what is mockery.

regards,
Glenn
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-13-2006, 09:51 PM
sculptor's Avatar
sculptor sculptor is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: IOWA
Posts: 1,493
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

hi Glenn thanx for the corrected link
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-14-2006, 02:16 AM
anatomist1 anatomist1 is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pacific NW, USA
Posts: 604
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

I think the lesson here is that you should not enter juried art shows expecting to win or get in unless you know something about the jurors. If you know nothing about the jurors, you know nothing about the criteria, so your chances are completely random. These things have nothing to do with the quality or worth of your work, they have to do with the particular tastes and opinions of the judges. If you find the entry fees expensive, don't waste your money. If you want to win something or get into one of these things, you need to network, research, and find out which ones are being judged by someone who might like your type of work.

I entered a photo show with what I thought were some pretty good black and white night landscapes. Many people have said good things about these pictures. The winning entry was someone who had silk-screened stock photos of missing children onto the sides of metal lunch boxes. The second and third prizes were also edgy, politically-oriented works. I didn't know anything about the judge ahead of time and had no idea that my work had no chance because it wasn't political. I went to a lot of trouble to compose and print fine art photos, and I would have been better off taking a disposable point-and-shoot to an anti-abortion protest rally.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-14-2006, 04:04 PM
Thatch Thatch is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas,Tx
Posts: 684
Re: Rejected by the Mayors Art Show

If I was going to enter something into a show that was attached to a politician in any way at all it would be apolitical and asexual in form and context. I imagine jurors are getting something for their troubles even if it is only press. Choose something that might in any fashion embarrass the sponser and not only will you not get to do it again, you could get blackballed from being a jurist elsewhere in the future. Simply because something is exellent won't even get it an extra look it it might raise waves.

Thatch
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Sculpture Community, Sculpture.net
International Sculpture Center, Sculpture.org
vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Russ RuBert